Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews


I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.

As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.

Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.

1. Speaker pricing.

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.

The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.

a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.

Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.

In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.

3. Crossover point and dispersion

One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.

Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.

Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.

In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response.  One big reason not to is crossover costs.  I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range.  In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies.  Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.

I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.

erik_squires

Men buy hifis because they like what they hear. Women buy handbags because they like what they see. Same thing, different sense used.

Totally subjective and each will choose differently for reasons totally unique to them .

Everyone has an opinion and they are all different. How to decide which opinions are best? Take a guess. It starts with the letter M.

The only way to meaningfully compare options is to quantify the options somehow. If it can’t be quantified the decision is a crapshoot and the odds are not in your favor.

@markwd Thanks for clearing that up as it never made sense to me the way I perceived it. 

All the best,
Nonoise

Just wait until those ASR guys learn that much of science is based on human sense (and has its own biases)!  Boy, if only those kids could read...

 

Leistner describes his job as "massaging atoms." He works by hand because he believes — and the most advanced computer imaging has confirmed — that no machine can match his touch.

 

Wired - The Search for a More Perfect Kilogram

Some of you claim you can hear the difference between power cables. Measurements don’t verify any of it. But if you want to pay up for expensive power cords go for it. It’s your money.

 

Here’s a $1200 power cord for you, the AudioQuest NRG Thunder. It uses ‘long grain copper’ 😜

  • A carefully finessed combination of solid high-purity Long-Grain Copper (LGC) and high-purity Perfect-Surface Copper (PSC) conductors prevent strand interaction, a major source of ear fatiguing transient intermodulation distortion. LGC allows a smoother and clearer sound than standard OFHC (Oxygen-Free-High-Conductivity) copper.

Without making any measurements let’s just use common sense. Electrical power is conducted through miles of cable, substations at high voltage and numerous transformers before reaching your house. Then it runs through your electrical panel, circuit breakers, and the Romex cable in your house wiring.

So AudioQuest would have you believe that the last 3’ of their ‘long grain copper’ power cord 🤭 is going to improve the sound of your amplifier and charge you $1200 for that.

 

If you believe that stuff and are willing to pay up, go for it.

 

 

 

Looks like the softening up is working, permitting the more trollish and boorish to hash over the extremes and paint everything they don't like with a broad brush.

That analogy of oh those some many miles of cabling before it gets to your place has been shot down time and again. All those substations, annexes, transformers and cabling alter the power in ways that would not resemble what it measures as when it finally reaches your home. 

It's not some invisible, constant never changing force being shuttled to your door. What matters is how it's intended to be when it at last gets to your outlet and measures are taken to ensure it doesn't vary much, especially as much as it did during it's journey carried over aluminum lines. Would you have your PC made out of aluminum?

So yes, it is those last three feet that matter since most people don't go around trying to directly connect stuff to the Romex. Granted, they charge more than it's worth but who doesn't nowadays? 

I have a few PCs from TWL and some from Zu Audio and a few others and there's clearly a difference in sound staging, dynamics, and frequency extension. Until the fetish of measuring everything to death and making a cottage industry out of it, we've always relied on our ears and yes, some fell prey to marketing and peer pressure but stop with this throwing the baby out with the bathwater malarkey.

One can always get better performance for not so dear a price as the one you brought up and to keep citing the extremes doesn't bode well for those arguments.

Do your thing and leave others to do the same. Before this measurement fetish took hold, members were politely cautioned about price/performance matters and not to fall for the hype. It's always been done that way, but now, it's one big crusade that requires total subjugation, enabling all that dopamine and serotonin to flow again for that big, fat rush.

All the best,
Nonoise