Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews

So you make no money from your youtube channel and ASR? 

I don't know what "make money" means.  I have invested $200,000+ in test equipment and heaven knows how many thousands of hours of my own time.  Members make donations but it is not remotely enough to offset the cost of the equipment let alone all the other expenses.

If you actually get people to send you money then you are an absolute genius.

If that is the definition of "genius," then I am the sharpest tool in the shed.  😁  Members do indeed donation significant amount of money to ASR.

Do you own or are you involved in the retail sale of components? 

Not at all.  Hate that business on top of that. 

If so, how many of these are represented by Harman?

There is no relationship whatsoever between Harman and ASR (or any other company as a matter of fact).  Despite my friendships with a number of people there, they won't even send me a screw to review!  I have bought some of the Harman products out of my pocket and the rest have come from members.

I have founded another company called Madrona Digital. That company's business is completely outside of hi-fi and involves custom electronics for very high-end residential and commercial accounts with zero interest in topics we discuss at ASR.

Every year about a handful of people ask me to order products through Madrona for them.  No attempt is made to solicit any such business on ASR as it is an independent entity.  No ads for Madrona.  No items offered for sale.  Nothing.  When someone wants something I can source, product is ordered from Harman and goes to them directly as we don't inventory anything.  And again, Madrona's business is completely different.

Show me where I said Ralph was my favorite designer. 

So you bought products from a designer you don't like?  How was he able to produce what you wanted to listen to then?

I talked with Ralph when he just received the chips which made his class D amps possible.

What "chips?"  His amplifier is a discrete design using GaN FET transistors.  Do you have any knowledge of electronics? Statements like that make me think you do not.

I owned them before I became a dealer.

Oh, you were a dealer and are questioning my motivations?  Don't you think you should put a disclaimer of being a salesman in every post you make that relates to this?  We mandated this on ASR by the way.  Dealers have Dealer tags.  Industry members have Audio Company tags.  Both are highly encouraged to put their affiliation in their signature so that people are fully aware of any potential areas of bias or commercial interest.  Had I known you were a dealer, I would have called you on that way, way earlier in the thread.

 

 

 

Have you ever listened to an Atma-sphere product?

Sure.  See my show reports:

 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/rmaf-2016-united-home-audio-tape-classic-audio-purist-audio-atma-sphere-music-tri-planar.884/

 

 

 

Show me any definitive test or study that says that our senses are wrong, especially in an audio setting.

I already have.  I will post again in an attempt to see if you will read it this time.

Sean. E Olive, "Differences in Performance and Preference of Trained Versus Untrained Listeners in Loudspeaker Tests: A Case Study," J. AES, Vol. 51, issue 9, pp. 806-825, September 2003

"J. AES" means Journal of Audio Engineering Society which means all papers are peer reviewed prior to publication.

Audio salespeople like you were tested in their ability to consistently rank speakers in controlled, blind tests.  They massively failed to do so relative to trained listeners:

 

From the abstract:

"Listening tests on four different loudspeakers were conducted over the course of 18 months using 36 different groups of listeners. The groups included 256 untrained listeners whose occupations fell into one of four categories: audio retailer, marketing and sales, professional audio reviewer, and college student. The loudspeaker preferences and performance of these listeners were compared to those of a panel of 12 trained listeners. Significant differences in performance, expressed in terms of the magnitude of the loudspeaker F statistic FL, were
found among the different categories of listeners. The trained listeners were the most discriminating and reliable listeners, with mean FL values 3–27 times higher than the other four listener categories."

As noted above, dealers were 3 times less accurate than trained listeners.  I have participated with a group of dealers at Harman and watched them first hand fall apart in double blind tests where Sean Olive and I could go way past were they could not.  And these dealers are above average by having gone through extensive training at Harman (but not for specific purpose of evaluating speakers).  You likely would fall at or below Audio Reviewers who were 5 times worse than trained listeners.

If you can't tell the difference reliably between speakers were there is objectively large differences, what hope is there for you tell any difference in electronics?  None.

If you disagree, please show controlled listening tests that demonstrate your ability to properly evaluate audio fidelity.  Outside of that, you are grading your own exam and we know how much such scores mean.

You say you dont sell components but own a company that sources components through Harman and perhaps other companies. Madrona sells electronics yes? The money you make off these sourced components makes money for Madrona yes? I can tell by the way you answer these questions there is more to this than you are letting on. I dont believe you but it really doesnt matter.

I would think that my dealer status should be obvious. If you think this pearls before swine stuff helps my business think again. I take no radical stance other than that measurements dont tell us nearly what you would suggest. I take issue with you and some of your faithful because I believe your stance on this hobby is a tactic. A ploy to get a following and then lead them down a path that serves your purpose. You offer a simplistic solution to a confusing hobby and as such you are guaranteed a following. To what end and purpose only you know, but it isnt to help your faithful or this hobby. Remember a successful parasite doesnt kill its host. Or at least not quickly.

Where did say that I didnt like Ralph's designs or the man? I like Ralph personally but this has no bearing on my ownership and representation of his product. I obviously wouldnt buy his amps if I didnt think they had something unique to offer. 

I used "chips" for want of the correct word. I believe these chips/GanFets were made by Toshiba. Point is I was talking with Ralph about this when you were getting fired from your other jobs or winning grammys or whatever was going on in your past life according to other members.  

Your show reports suck. You blame the performance of the stereo on the music. Ask for some other music then and make some sort of effort. But why if he designs using nonperfomant (did I get this correct) tube equipment? Your mind is made up and admit that it cant possibly be viable because it is a tube product. Admit this and save us both some time.

Please a list of the industry people that have helped ASR become an industry influencer. Simple request and if you dont answer some of the faithful might take notice and start buying purple fuses.

Feel free to contact me directly if you need help with your reference system. 

Carry on Amir. 

 

 

Oh my God it is like talking with a child. You keep going back to this Harman test. Did these people know they were being tested? If so, then all data can be dismissed. Pretty simple to tell a group of listeners what to listen for and then rank them higher than those with little to no clue. Without more detail it means nothing and even less because it is most likely a marketing ploy which was implemented by an audio distributor. JAES, peer reviewed by people who believe as you do so this means very little.  You mention it because it gives you an added level of credibility to those not familiar with such things. Did Harman put on some dull music and then call it a day or did they play different music of different genres. Remember that Ralph plays real music not Diana Krall and related drivel. Real music for people that participate in this hobby for the love of music. He would have been happy to play something of your choosing which is often what real reviewers require in order to do a fair representation. Tell you what, spend $ 200K on your system and $ 10K on measurement devices and you might learn something new.

Keep up the good work Amir. We may be done so if I dont respond dont take it personally and you may tell your devotees you kicked my butt and I took my toys and went home.

@amir_asr  "If that is the definition of "genius," then I am the sharpest tool in the shed. 😁 Members do indeed donation significant amount of money to ASR."
What did P.T,Barnum say? "There is a sucker born every minute."

"As an aside, "audition__audio" made it clear from his first post he was a dealer, you need to read more carefully.