Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews


I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.

As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.

Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.

1. Speaker pricing.

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.

The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.

a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.

Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.

In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.

3. Crossover point and dispersion

One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.

Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.

Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.

In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response.  One big reason not to is crossover costs.  I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range.  In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies.  Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.

I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.

erik_squires

Sure loves his Chineee Dacs! lol. If they all sound the same and are perfect to human hearing why keep measuring them. Why ever change one out?? Think the Toppings of the world aren’t benifiting greatly from Amir’s unconditional praise? Think he’s gettin paid…? Yep I lived in China for 6 years in a professional position. He’s either gettin paid or turning it down like I did. Somehow I think he’s not. 
 

Also my my main question was how do you measure dynamics?? Never answered it. Just “Said” how loud something can play, then you said it’s not a real thing , then in your blog on you asser site you were raving about some amazing dynamics! So… how do you measure dynamics with your test tones?? I’ll just keep posting the same question since you won’t answer it….you snotty little p…k

Really on thin ice here. You keep quoting the one A/B where someone did not hear a difference as your proof that your "pretend science" is true. Again, I can link thousands and thousands of posts and quotes and videos and online and print magazine articles that say the exact opposite....again....who has truth?

And over and over agian you post about your one time that a DAC measured poorly.....so you listened to it and it sounded bad......However, you never listen to any DACs that measure what you like because you think they measure good enough that they are transparent.....this is WHAT YOU BELEIEVE.....and it has never ever been proven. You simply made it up.....that is why it is false science. You have NO science on your side....you have measurements and then a "belief system"......you have no proof. As, I have previously stated....you are in an ego loop....defending a position that is undefendable. I predicted....yes, I PREDICTED.....that you will probably never give up your position this lifetime (you have invested in this belief for so long and now have a website promoting it, etc).....so far, I am correct. I would like you to prove me wrong....and become a more honest person.....Honest.....means ONE with what is (EST). The WHAT IS.....is that all DACs, preamps, and amps sound different....and all cables sound different....and we can hear it. But you cannot.....or shall we say....WILL NOT allow yourself to even try to hear it......You are simply stuck in a belief system....ego based. Happiness is not in that system....happiness.....looks for, and expresses what is real....what is true. What is real is how beautiful you are.....how magnificient...and always have been and always will be. That is real. Ego defending is NOT REAL.....and NOT happiness promoting...for yourself or anyone.

Really on thin ice here. You keep quoting the one A/B where someone did not hear a difference as your proof that your "pretend science" is true. 

He is a great example because he is the uber version of you all.  He is a member here and you can question him if you like.  And his experience in this test is fully documented and not some folklore you are repeating.

Again, I can link thousands and thousands of posts and quotes and videos and online and print magazine articles that say the exact opposite....again....who has truth?

You certainly don't have the truth because you don't follow the simplest protocol to make sure the results are valid and indicate fidelity as perceived only by your ear.  Further, plurality of people confused doesn't make them right.  People lack awareness of how their perception works.  By not reading and learning the science and engineering, they are easily confused.  See this video for example: