2. analog
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MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
theophile's avatar
theophile
238 posts
 

I posit a scenario about live music:

 

This is not a theoretical exercise. We have all experienced it. Music/ someone singing or both/multliples. We are outside of the building. There is no direct sound transmission of the live in the flesh performance. All the doors and windows, all passages between outside and inside are closed. The sound which is transmitted to the outside environment is comprised of the structural, windows, doors, leaking soud to the exterior. A highly distorted transmission of sound.

 

Yet we KNOW indisputably that the leaked distorted sound comes from actual person(s) and instruments.

 

There is a quality to a live in the flesh non-amplified voice or instrument that we recognise from a block away. Even when were just catch it in the distance and listen as we walk toward the source. We know irrefutably that someone is actually singing and someone is actually playing. Even when the sound transmits through a closed building.

It must be a dynamic-transient power which gets diluted in our recording and playback attempts.

 

 

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 

@rauliruegas I generally stay away from making those kinds of comments Raul because people have no idea what my baseline is, what my system sounds like. I have no idea what your system sounds like. If you tell me a cartridge has great bass I have no way of interpreting that. Comments like, "low distortion" or "Great tracking" apply to all systems. I mentioned that the Hyperion was a bit bright on my system, a problem I can easily correct with digital EQ. The Hyperion might be perfect for someone with a system that is tilted towards the bass. 

Because I have set up and measured many systems I can assure you that the performance of individual systems is vastly different, even with the best equipment. The result is that people's tastes are vastly different and their assessment of equipment is biased by this making it impossible for me or anyone to interpret what they are saying.  All I can say of my cartridges is that they are all within a hair of each other. They are all great performers from a mechanical perspective. The Hyperion leans towards brightness on my system and I wish the MC Diamond had a higher output level. The Lyra is perfect, no alterations needed......on my system. 

lewm
13,070 posts
 

I agree with Mijostyn. For me, the only thing I can learn from reading the opinions of others on this or that piece of gear is that if 8 or 9 out of 10 hold the same or similar opinion, there may be some truth to it. Still, I approach even that much consensus with caution.

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,066 posts
 

Dear @mijostyn : " I generally stay away from making those kinds of comments Raul because people have no idea what my baseline is, what my system sounds like......"

As lewm you have a misunderstood of what I ask through my post because I don´t care ( well, I care but it’s not what I posted to you ) how your sound system is in the same way that that was not the thread questions.

As those posted other gentlemans statements main sound Characteristics are what could makes the differences why we like more this kind of cartridge than other or others because what we like is not the main issue of this thread and maybe you have additional whole listen characteristics that you can share with us. This is all about.

We have to have specific references when we make tests MUSIC/sound comparisons/evaluations. not only on cartridges but with any audio item.

For some or many of us those posted statements is the " food " that is already in each one table ready to eat, maybe not for you because exist other main characteristics that you have and we need to take in count or maybe you are in agreement with and nothing to add.

 

R.

 

 

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

Reference Points only last as long as the tome it takes to discover the next reference point.

Anybody who thinks there is not a next reference point, in my view has lost the desire to discover new experiences with end sound being produced using audio equipment.

Additionally, if an individual has built a system that leans towards giving the Bass Frequency a larger slice of pie, in relation to coherence across the frequency range. Why ?, would it be suggested the individual is in need of a device to reduce the Bass Notes presence. Is not the individual entitled to produce he end sound that gives them the most satisfaction. 

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