Why I don't hear bass drums on Jazz LPs?

The kick drum is usually not prominent In classic "laid-back" jazz versus high-energy bebop and fusion where the kick drum is usually more prominent. 

This is the best thread I have read on this forum. 

Special thanks to @bdp24, I never realized there is so much to drumming.

Regards,

barts

Found this 2LP set in my collection, “The Big Beat” on Milestone. Features Blakey, Roach, Elvin Jones, and Philly Joe Jones , in separate sets recorded in the late 50s/early 60s. Listening to Elvin now. Each group is replete with some of the greatest ever, as well.

The following is not related to the op’s question, but as many readers have enjoyed the general topic of drumming, I thought the following may be of interest:

As others have commented, there ARE Jazz drummers who play their bass drum very much like Rock drummers. My initial answer was made in regard to the type of recordings he was speaking of, which is only a small part of the world of Jazz music.

In the 1950’s and 60’s there was Rock ’n’ Roll, and there was Jazz, and never the twain shall meet, as the old expression goes. That started changing around 1966/7 or so, when Jazz-influenced drummers began appearing in Rock bands. Mitch Mitchell in The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Ginger Baker in Cream, Carmine Appice in Vanilla Fudge, John Bonham in Led Zeppelin, and Bobby Colomby in Blood, Sweat, & Tears, most notably.

The father of the lead guitarist in my senior year high school band was a Jazz drummer, and he drove us all up to San Francisco to see and hear Cream and Hendrix at The Fillmore and Winterland. Let me tell ya, seeing him sitting on the floor of The Fillmore Indian-style, joints being passed down the row with him in the middle, was pretty damn funny. 😆 No, he didn’t partake.

At the same time the other Rock ’n’ Roll instruments were starting to be played by musicians with more technical chops than Rock musicians were typically known for. This included guitar (Jeff Beck a favorite), electric bass (John Entwistle, Jack Bruce, Jack Casady), and keyboards.

The increasing profits being enjoyed by the record companies---a result of the disposable income spending habits of the baby boomer generation, and the increasing cultural importance of music in their lives---and the money being made by Rock musicians, did not go unnoticed by Jazz record labels and by Jazz musicians themselves. And as the Rock audience started showing an interest in Jazz music, the Jazz players and bands thought they’d like in on the action.

While Rock bands started incorporating Classical music into theirs (resulting in Progressive music), Jazz started incorporating some elements of Rock into theirs (resulting in the Fusion genre). Both musics required the drummer to have the ability to play odd-time signatures (Ringo admitted his brain "didn’t work that way"), and a knowledge of the basic drumming rudiments (double stroke roll, paradiddle, flam, etc.) separated the men from the boys. Rock drummers had long been self-taught, playing only single-stroke style (even Keith Moon, believe it or not). Jazz players were trained musicians, knowing all the rudiments (which allowed them to play the all-important press roll) and reading music.

There are many sub-genres in all styles of music, including of course Jazz. One thing constant in all Jazz is the superior technical capabilities of it’s players. Some music requires that ability to play it well, some doesn’t. The technical abilities that advanced Jazz players possess is of no interest to the producers of other musics. Horses for courses, as they say. What Miles Davis looked for in a drummer is very different from what, say, Neil Young does.

One thing about technical players: their abilities are a basic tenet of their musical identity, and sense of self worth. When The Band was given carte blanche to choose the opening act for their July 10th, 1970 show at The Hollywood Bowl, they chose Miles Davis. Can you think of any other Rock ’n’ Roll band that would?! In the book The Story Of The Band: From Big Pink To The Last Waltz by Harvey and Kenneth Kubernik, record producer/manager Robert Marchese recounts running into Miles at the corner of Sunset Blvd. and Crescent Heights on the day of the show. "Tonight I’m going to be at The Hollywood Bowl to see you, brother", he said to Miles. Miles asked him "How good are these cats on the bill with me?" Robert replied "They’re the best white motherf***ers in the business right now." Miles glared, and said "I’m gonna smoke ’em."

Band drummer/singer Levon Helm---a very favorite of mine---and Miles’ drummer Jack DeJohnette became very good friends, and enjoyed a mutual admiration for one other. When Jack headlined the 2017 Playboy Jazz Festival, his set was highlighted by his version of The Band’s "Up On Cripple Creek". Now, as much as I love Levon, the drumming on that song was performed not by Levon, but by The Band’s pianist/singer Richard Manuel (most people aren’t aware of that fact). Richard in fact plays drums on about half the songs on The Band’s s/t ("brown") album. He’s also a favorite drummer of mine. Technique is not everything. 😉

Some of the best recorded jazz is on a Japanese label--East Wind--and the recoding of drums is particularly good on an album for the Great Jazz Trio (Hank Jones, Ron Carter, Tony Williams): "Direct from LA."  If you can find it, go for the original release (might be expensive) which has a very glossy cover.  The drum solo on "Night in Tunisia" is amazingly realistic.