Step Up Transformers….Are they Worth the Trouble?


Some of you may aware of my Garrard 301 project, it’s now very close to completion. The plinth finally shipped from Hungry after 3 months of long wait.

Given my last experience with Hana Umami Red, I would like to take things to the next level. Which brings me to mating low output cart with a SUT. Every review I’ve read so far suggests when the SUT-MC match is right, the end result is heavenly. The bass is right, the midrange is clear, and most importantly, the highs are relaxed and extended—not rolled off.

I am not saying you can’t get great sound without a SUT but it appears with a properly matched SUT, sound can be quite magical.

Thought this would be the right time to get input from experienced users here since I am still contemplating my cartridge and outboard phonostage options.

My preference would be to go with a tube phono…I kinda miss tinkering with tubes :-)

My system, Garrard 301 (fully refurbished), Reed 3P tonearm, Accuphase E-650 with built-in AD50 analog board ➡️ Tannoy Canterbury’s.

Cart and phono under consideration through my dealer,

Fuuga - Output : 0.35 mVrms | Impedance : 2.5 Ω (1kHz)

Phonostage - Tron Convergence and Konus Audio Phono Series 1000

The cart - MC combination, I am lusting after is Etsuro Urushi Bordeaux MC with their Etsuro Transformer.
https://www.etsurojapan.com/product/bordeaux

The other transformer is EMIA, cooper or silver version.

Your input is appreciated!

128x128lalitk

I have a experience of experiencing quite a lot of equipment in use across quite a few different systems, but must admit today, commercial orientated systems where a system is built to create sales are not listened to much, very infrequently will be a fair explanation since Covid Times and infrequently will be a fair explanation for a good period of time prior to Covid.

I can't Speak for all, but have even received reports from individuals I trust in heavily in relation to Audio Equipment, who on return from Event such as the High End Munich, have felt the Demo's encountered overall were uninspiring.

There is not a generic formula for Math, that is able to be used that will win over all with the End Sound Produced. Is this not another fact worth pointing out.

Foot Work, Experiencing and assessing impression made of an End Sound Produced, is my methodology. It has served me very very well, not much that has been bought has been replaced or resold. Those who have tried to convince me of the Math, are usually informed to leave that for the Mathematicians or Wannabe Mathematicians. During my time and limited encounters, my real trust count in  individuals with a Mathematical prowess, that has slowly developed into trust over many years of encounters, is limited to reliance on a number of trusted individuals that amounts to less than the digits on one hand.

@pindac WTF are you talking about? It seems you just babble about everything that you have heard, at places other than your own. 98% of the time I don't bother reading your posts anymore. Is it just me? I think not. 

Pindac, Not all high end component designers are EEs, although ideally one would like to think so. Many/most are just intelligent guys with no degree related to EE who use math, and yes also their own personal biases, to design equipment.  Which is why there is no agreement on what is "best".  There is no general consensus even on something as fundamental as whether a phono stage should be balanced or single-ended, tube or solid state, transformer coupled or direct coupled, and on and on. BUT one can only hope that a given commercial design makes sense mathematically, else for example the RIAA correction is apt to be very inaccurate.  So, go ahead and follow your ears and your heart in choosing your own gear, but verify that the theory is sound.  What I am saying is that there are many many ways to get the design right, but they all depend upon the same mathematical formulae for calculating parts value, in order to get a good result.

“I thought the Monbrisson phono stage did not have sufficient gain for a LOMC cartridge”
@lewm 

I didn’t perceive anything lacking with the soundstage when I played Hana Umami Red through Monbrison onboard phono. Others may have used a SUT as personal preference. I believe the latest revision of Monbrison don’t have MC phono option. 

In any case, I am very close to finalizing a tube MM phono. The plinth is finally here (phew). 

If my posts at anytime are addressed @rsf507 it would not be any care of mine if it was read by yourself or any other. It is known within this forum, I add Posts for the ’looker in’ who does not post or posts very infrequently, as well as for a future visitors looking to see if a broad range of notions and proposals are able to be discovered.

I have made no secret in the past, I periodically receive PM’s from individuals who are not regular posters, or who are regular posters. Where inquiries are made wanting to receive further information about the content they have seen. This is an encouragement and one that keeps myself active.

Additionally, I also receive the occasional PM that thanks me for a content added to a Thread, another unexpected encouragement and one that keeps myself active in this forum.

What is contradictory is you state you don’t read my Posts, but do make the time for reading 2% ? Is it not better to just SKIP the Post ?

With 2% of content being meticulously studied, you are fluent and able to offer up a reasonable interpretation about the content. Is this 2% across all Subjects I offer a supporting commentary on, or limited to the Analogue Subject only ?

I am glad you are absorbing the supplied info, about what I class as the most valuable asset to my Audio Experience. Which is my making it known I do not shut myself away in a Room as a lone listener to recorded music with the sole audio experience being from using the homes dedicated audio system. With the end result being I am Kidding myself I have created a great playback system. That stupidity from being very Insular in relation to recorded music replays on audio equipment was ended a long long time in the past.

For many many years the Bulk of my experiences are from a approach where Social Activity is the fundamental. Where experiencing Audio Systems and different devices as demo’s in such systems are the basic theme to create a reason for a Meeting. The real value is friends getting together, sharing Banter, sharing Lunch and enjoying New Music Tracks and few Old Faithful Tracks to get an ear in to the end sound on offer.

I whole heartedly encourage others to see if they can find a way to have very similar experiences on a regular basis, there is potential to learn vast amounts, through the broad range of individuals who can start to show up.

I make no secret on this forum that the bulk of my main audio system is packed away for storage, as there is a Home Overhaul being planned to occur.

I make no secret on this forum, that much of my musical experiences had in my own home are with my Wife and supplied by using her Amazon Alexa, which in my own opinion are as enjoyable as a musical encounter as any had anywhere at any time, just not as refined as a dedicated audio system can create as a end sound. The Grandchildren totally enjoy the interaction as well, one song being danced to is Alice Cooper the next from Horrid Henry smiley

If an individual can’t accept another’s chosen methodology for sharing on audio related experiences, that is their beef not mine. Life is way way too short.

Over a decade, a growing number of Members of a Local Audio Club, have evolved to host events throughout a year, taking place in the homes of Members, or where Members have Pooled Equipment to be taken to and used at Public attended Audio Enthusiast Events. 12 Members > 12 Systems of which Three systems are the regularly used ones, but over 18 Months - 2 years all systems will have been used for a Meeting. I can usually attends 4-6 meetings a year.

What’s not to like, what is needed to be criticised ?

@lewm stated " Not all high end component designers are EEs, although ideally one would like to think so. Many/most are just intelligent guys with no degree related to EE who use math, and yes also their own personal biases, to design equipment. "

I am very very familiar with this outlook and have friendships with a Group of individuals from both categories of EE Skills, as well being very familiar with the need to have accuracy in mechanical designs for use in audio, where I also have friendships with very adept producers of audio related equipment who use Lathes for machining, even producing Micro Parts, as well as using CNC’s.

Hence my statement, "During my time and limited encounters, my real trust count in individuals with a Mathematical prowess, that has slowly developed into trust over many years of encounters, is limited to reliance on a number of trusted individuals that amounts to less than the digits on one hand ".

Do I have any regrets to date, more of a want I would say, I would have liked to have been able to have had the available time to attend more get togethers, and had been able to visit all who have been met, who have impressed me with their discussed Skill Sets. To experience their work applied to their systems, is usually a indelible experience and one that inspires way beyond that, which is on offer from a commonly used methods to experience audio related equipment.

A very adept EE put on a event recently that I attended where a 3 Watt output Amp’ Prototype was being Demo'd ( not carried out on my own system ). This experience of this Amp' has blown me completely of track and has myself rethinking a lot about an End Sound that is able to be produced. The expectation that a 300b follow Up Amp was going to show the shortcomings of a 3 Watt Amp did not become realised. There are many questions now needing to be asked and answered to get the full grip on what was experienced and the impression that was made.

Within this Thread I have only shared with the OP my experiences had, my assessments of those experiences had and in relation to being investigative. I have shared, it is of value to have a open mind, with an intent to create a list that contains a broad range of devices to be experienced. Which suggests the investigation may become one that is a long haul with a few devices Superseded as the collateral damages, as I have experienced, or a few devices discovered to be used in conjunction, as I have also experienced and maintain to this date.