Step Up Transformers….Are they Worth the Trouble?


Some of you may aware of my Garrard 301 project, it’s now very close to completion. The plinth finally shipped from Hungry after 3 months of long wait.

Given my last experience with Hana Umami Red, I would like to take things to the next level. Which brings me to mating low output cart with a SUT. Every review I’ve read so far suggests when the SUT-MC match is right, the end result is heavenly. The bass is right, the midrange is clear, and most importantly, the highs are relaxed and extended—not rolled off.

I am not saying you can’t get great sound without a SUT but it appears with a properly matched SUT, sound can be quite magical.

Thought this would be the right time to get input from experienced users here since I am still contemplating my cartridge and outboard phonostage options.

My preference would be to go with a tube phono…I kinda miss tinkering with tubes :-)

My system, Garrard 301 (fully refurbished), Reed 3P tonearm, Accuphase E-650 with built-in AD50 analog board ➡️ Tannoy Canterbury’s.

Cart and phono under consideration through my dealer,

Fuuga - Output : 0.35 mVrms | Impedance : 2.5 Ω (1kHz)

Phonostage - Tron Convergence and Konus Audio Phono Series 1000

The cart - MC combination, I am lusting after is Etsuro Urushi Bordeaux MC with their Etsuro Transformer.
https://www.etsurojapan.com/product/bordeaux

The other transformer is EMIA, cooper or silver version.

Your input is appreciated!

128x128lalitk

If my posts at anytime are addressed @rsf507 it would not be any care of mine if it was read by yourself or any other. It is known within this forum, I add Posts for the ’looker in’ who does not post or posts very infrequently, as well as for a future visitors looking to see if a broad range of notions and proposals are able to be discovered.

I have made no secret in the past, I periodically receive PM’s from individuals who are not regular posters, or who are regular posters. Where inquiries are made wanting to receive further information about the content they have seen. This is an encouragement and one that keeps myself active.

Additionally, I also receive the occasional PM that thanks me for a content added to a Thread, another unexpected encouragement and one that keeps myself active in this forum.

What is contradictory is you state you don’t read my Posts, but do make the time for reading 2% ? Is it not better to just SKIP the Post ?

With 2% of content being meticulously studied, you are fluent and able to offer up a reasonable interpretation about the content. Is this 2% across all Subjects I offer a supporting commentary on, or limited to the Analogue Subject only ?

I am glad you are absorbing the supplied info, about what I class as the most valuable asset to my Audio Experience. Which is my making it known I do not shut myself away in a Room as a lone listener to recorded music with the sole audio experience being from using the homes dedicated audio system. With the end result being I am Kidding myself I have created a great playback system. That stupidity from being very Insular in relation to recorded music replays on audio equipment was ended a long long time in the past.

For many many years the Bulk of my experiences are from a approach where Social Activity is the fundamental. Where experiencing Audio Systems and different devices as demo’s in such systems are the basic theme to create a reason for a Meeting. The real value is friends getting together, sharing Banter, sharing Lunch and enjoying New Music Tracks and few Old Faithful Tracks to get an ear in to the end sound on offer.

I whole heartedly encourage others to see if they can find a way to have very similar experiences on a regular basis, there is potential to learn vast amounts, through the broad range of individuals who can start to show up.

I make no secret on this forum that the bulk of my main audio system is packed away for storage, as there is a Home Overhaul being planned to occur.

I make no secret on this forum, that much of my musical experiences had in my own home are with my Wife and supplied by using her Amazon Alexa, which in my own opinion are as enjoyable as a musical encounter as any had anywhere at any time, just not as refined as a dedicated audio system can create as a end sound. The Grandchildren totally enjoy the interaction as well, one song being danced to is Alice Cooper the next from Horrid Henry smiley

If an individual can’t accept another’s chosen methodology for sharing on audio related experiences, that is their beef not mine. Life is way way too short.

Over a decade, a growing number of Members of a Local Audio Club, have evolved to host events throughout a year, taking place in the homes of Members, or where Members have Pooled Equipment to be taken to and used at Public attended Audio Enthusiast Events. 12 Members > 12 Systems of which Three systems are the regularly used ones, but over 18 Months - 2 years all systems will have been used for a Meeting. I can usually attends 4-6 meetings a year.

What’s not to like, what is needed to be criticised ?

@lewm stated " Not all high end component designers are EEs, although ideally one would like to think so. Many/most are just intelligent guys with no degree related to EE who use math, and yes also their own personal biases, to design equipment. "

I am very very familiar with this outlook and have friendships with a Group of individuals from both categories of EE Skills, as well being very familiar with the need to have accuracy in mechanical designs for use in audio, where I also have friendships with very adept producers of audio related equipment who use Lathes for machining, even producing Micro Parts, as well as using CNC’s.

Hence my statement, "During my time and limited encounters, my real trust count in individuals with a Mathematical prowess, that has slowly developed into trust over many years of encounters, is limited to reliance on a number of trusted individuals that amounts to less than the digits on one hand ".

Do I have any regrets to date, more of a want I would say, I would have liked to have been able to have had the available time to attend more get togethers, and had been able to visit all who have been met, who have impressed me with their discussed Skill Sets. To experience their work applied to their systems, is usually a indelible experience and one that inspires way beyond that, which is on offer from a commonly used methods to experience audio related equipment.

A very adept EE put on a event recently that I attended where a 3 Watt output Amp’ Prototype was being Demo'd ( not carried out on my own system ). This experience of this Amp' has blown me completely of track and has myself rethinking a lot about an End Sound that is able to be produced. The expectation that a 300b follow Up Amp was going to show the shortcomings of a 3 Watt Amp did not become realised. There are many questions now needing to be asked and answered to get the full grip on what was experienced and the impression that was made.

Within this Thread I have only shared with the OP my experiences had, my assessments of those experiences had and in relation to being investigative. I have shared, it is of value to have a open mind, with an intent to create a list that contains a broad range of devices to be experienced. Which suggests the investigation may become one that is a long haul with a few devices Superseded as the collateral damages, as I have experienced, or a few devices discovered to be used in conjunction, as I have also experienced and maintain to this date.

 

  @lalitk if u want the best SQ for your setup it is. if close enough is fine and u like jfets, opamps and switches for versatility youre good. some really good phono amps have SUT on board along with impedance matching. 

@cey 

Appreciate your advise. I keeping an open mind about this and will continue to explore my options in upcoming months. For starters, I am leaning towards a custom SUT’s plus MM tube phono setup. 

 

cant beat it, @lalitk 

 

 

lalitk's avatar

lalitk 

Appreciate your advise. I keeping an open mind about this and will continue to explore my options in upcoming months. For starters, I am leaning towards a custom SUT’s plus MM tube phono setup. 

Dear @lalitk : " I would like to take things to the next level. Which brings me to mating low output cart with a SUT..."

Well it’s clear that for you it’s the next step however for MUSIC is several back steps.

I can see too that through the whole tread all gentlemans ( MUSIC lovers? ) posted about system hardware and no one " touched " MUSIC that for me is the main target in any room/system in home reproduction.

In a live event almost does not exist anithing but air between MUSIC ( sources ) and we and that’s the whole and biggest diference against LP reproduced MUSIC.

It’s from there where comes that fast transient response and from here is developed the rythm and power dynamics than only live MUSIC achieves.

Recording and playback proccess makes a huge MUSIC degradation through all those " thousands " of steps/interruptions where the MUSIC signal must pass through and at each step is developed and accumulation of MUSIC severe degradation, distortions of everykind and higher noise levels.

So as lower the signal steps as better MUSIC quality levels and now you are thinking to add additional steps against MUSIC. Here what one of your OP electronics alternatives says about its main unit design ( Tron. ):

 

  • Very short signal path

 

 

and for very good reasons due that we need to try to preserve that sensible cartridge signal integrity but in this hardware’s party with the Sut you are adding a longer cartridge signal path than in your today SS Accuphase because you are separating preamp from phono and then Sut and those mean input/output additional metal blend connectors, several solder joints, transformers, not 2cms. of wire but over 1 m. along all the cartridge signal interactions down there.

 

All those can’t in anyway be an improvement/enhance or better quality sound reproduction but the other way around: only deep degradations with higher developed distortions at any single added step. Again:

 

VERY SHORT SIGNAL PATH

always is the way to go, less is more and not the " dance " of this party.

You want to " take things to the next level " then you can change the Accuphase for a better SS phonolinepreamp as Gryphon, Boulder, CH or even Dartzeel. In all these units you are not adding nothing but better quality designs that really can improve the MUSIC quality sound. Other alternative is to go not for the Etsuro but for the Lyra Etna Lambda SL.

 

Those are " next levels " for your system. Obviously that you can follow with the thread’s party.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.