2. cables
  3. 190777-12183

Audio Cables: All the Same?

My patience has worn thin reading numerous postings by individuals who proclaim that anyone who spends more than, say, $30 on a cable is an “audiophool” and that the manufacturers who sell cables priced above that price are snake oil dealers. These people base their claims on two factors: (1) they can’t hear the difference between a cheap cable and an extremely expensive one; and (2) all cables of any quality whatsoever measure the same when tested.


I believe that these individuals have blinders on. Allow me to set forth a useful analogy – eggs Benedict. The recipe for them is simple: toast an English muffin; sauté a couple of slices of Canadian bacon; poach two eggs; and prepare Hollandaise sauce. After those ingredients are ready, put the Canadian bacon on the English muffin, stack the eggs on the bacon, pour Hollandaise sauce over the eggs (and possibly sprinkle a pinch of hot paprika over the sauce), and serve. Voila! Now, take two preparers – one of whom doesn’t give a damn how his eggs Benedict turns and tastes as long as he gets his $17.50/hour pay; and the other a supremely talented chef renowned for his exquisite preparation of egg dishes. I am willing to venture a guess that one of them will taste terrific, perhaps being the memorable highlight of a marvelous breakfast, and the other will be an awful mess, perhaps a composition of barely toasted and soggy English muffin, Canadian bacon so overcooked that the meat is like shoe leather, poached eggs like hockey pucks, and a severely curdled muck of a sauce poured over everything, followed by far too much paprika. That serving will also be memorable, but for a far different reason.


Now, here comes the chemist to test and measure both versions of eggs Benedict. He confirms that, upon his testing of the two dishes, he is able to state unequivocally that they are identical because both contain exactly the same ingredients and provide the same nutritional value. The fact that one serving is nearly inedible and the other is altogether delicious is irrelevant. After all, there is no science-based test for taste.


I propose the same is true for cables – there is no scientific test for what we hear.
Let me end my soliloquy by relating my recent experience with cables. A couple of months ago, I upgraded my digital system by acquiring a new SACD transport and a new DAC. Both components are widely considered to be extremely high end pieces of equipment (and priced stratospherically, too). At the time I did not replace the cables I had been using previously – an Audioquest Cimarron Ethernet cable between my 24 port network switch and my DAC, and Monster Cable M1000 analog interconnects between my DAC and my preamp. Frankly, I was dismayed by what I heard when I began streaming (Qobuz) music through my new DAC. The magic I had heard at its demonstration at AXPONA 2024 was non-existent. Maybe it was a bit better than my old DAC, but certainly not by much. One of the local audio dealers with whom I shared my disappointment suggested I try a really good Ethernet cable, handing me a Shunyata Sigma V2. This Shunyata cable contains two filters (one for EMI/RFI and one for common-mode interference) as well as several differentiators in how it is constructed. I really despise the expression oft-used by reviewers – “like a veil was lifted” – but that is what happened. The magic had returned. However, now I had another problem. Voices seemed to come only from a singer’s mouth and not also from the chest. With instrumentals, a certain fundamental (bass) element was missing. Overall, it was as if the entire frequency spectrum was tilted – lifting the treble and lowering the bass. I went back to this dealer. He recommended I try a pair of DH Labs Air Matrix Cryo analog interconnects between my DAC and my preamp. All I can say is “Wow!” The frequency spectrum had returned to its proper equilibrium.


I have now been using these new cables for a month. Their impacts are not the result of a placebo effect. Moreover, the last thing in the world I had wanted was to spend a couple of thousand dollars more for cables after I had already spent far more than I had planned on the SACD transport and the DAC. However, they had addressed and solved two very real problems. The Shunyata cable filtered out noise coming from the network switch; the DH Labs cable eliminated a frequency distortion inherent with the Monster Cable cable (which evidently had been masked by the predecessor DAC).


Before this experience, I had never believed that cables could be so important an element of an audio system. I always spent between $100 and $200 on them because, on the one hand I did not want to “chintz” and shortchange myself sonically, but on the other hand I was very skeptical that even spending that amount was fully money-for-incremental-value.


Since then, I tried replacing another Audioquest Cimarron Ethernet cable between my Nucleus+ and my network switch with a $500 Ethernet cable of another well-regarded cable manufacturer. I could not detect a shred of sonic difference between them. Thus, it has become clear to me that every cable implementation is unique; sometimes there is a discernable improvement provided by one over the other, and other times there isn’t.


In summary, having a preconceived notion about the value of cables (or lack thereof) disserves oneself. In some cases, but not all, there is a cable out there that will truly improve the sound of one’s audio system. It may be immeasurable, but it is, nevertheless, very real. 
 

128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xjmeyers
guscreek
22 posts
 

Hello all

Very interesting discussion.  For reference my modest system consists of a Proceed HPA-2, Lexicon MC-8 I use in two channel pure analog mode and a Denon SACD.  Well regarded components I would say.  What makes it a little more special are the DCM Time Frame 2000 speakers framing it all.  I don't recall any bad reviews on these velvet hammers.  I have had them for years and still smile when I crank a good live recording!  By the way that seems like a good benchmark on what one owns.

One day while vacuuming I damaged the banana plug jack on the right speaker.  The repair required removing the plastic assembly for the plugs.  Leading to the crossover was a pair of red and black 16 ga normal wire.  Hmm.  That gauge is only good for 18 amps...

Some of the comments on 500 dollar ethernet cables stunned me.  I have 35 years in instrumentation and low voltage controls.  I was an Electronics Tech/Surface Reactor Operator aboard USS Enterprise.  Point being I am educated in fields pertinent to this discussion.

One job in my career was installing new data wiring for a Level 4 Bio Hazard Lab in Hamilton MT.  Yes, true, federal facility even.  The standards for the cables and terminations were extremely high.  A very expensive Lantech 2 tester was used.  Most of the time the way the wiring was laid on the keystone before being punched down was the issue.  It could take several tries to pass.  RJ 45 connectors are quite simple after a couple thousand and almost never failed to pass.  Crosstalk, bandwidth and frankly quite a few tests I was not familiar with.  Normal Cat 6 wire, keystones and RJ 45 connectors.

I recently read how the bass player for Black Sabbath played thru a blown guitar amp.  It struck me how funny that was considering the exceptional lengths people go to  for sound reproduction.  Even if a band played the same song daily it would always sound different.  I ask this question with respect:  how is it that all of the equipment to amplify music and voice and record said is so normal but to correctly reproduce it takes six figures of unobtanium forged in Mordor?  I currently cannot locate a Fender amp that requires having good home equity.

Finally to power cords.  To further bore you with my past it also includes seven years at the power plants of PPL in Colstrip MT.  If you think some of your CD transports are precise and quiet try walking by 600 tons of turbine blades and generator stator spinning 3600 rpm and not feel a thing.  Anyway.  So that electricity is stepped up, transmitted, stepped down multiple times, makes it to your service and through your wiring to the living room.  NOW six feet of wire is somehow going produce some audible effect?  What happened to the power supplies in the gear?  I am honestly waiting for someone to preach how much better their system sounds on solar power.

 

Thanks for listening if you got this far.  I LOVE my Time Frames! 

ghdprentice
7,266 posts
 

@guscreek 

You have a very impressive background. What you know all makes sense, but just isn’t relevant in playback. It isn’t just about digits and what happens to power before it gets to the last six feet. I recommend finding a nearby audiophile or dealer willing to spend some time demonstrating what real world playback is like. There are many stories by folks that have spent years experimenting with digital, cables and power and the differences made by factors that theoretically should not matter are amazing and completely reproducible.

audioquest4life
774 posts
 

@fleschler 

Your response stands out to me as one of the most succinct and coherent responses related to the subject. I located a few Navy and NASA research papers regarding RF/EMI influence on signals and signal loss at varying lengths dependent on gauge and type of cable. Some of these papers date back to the early 70s.
 

The point is, these organizations measured signal interference in critical signal and power cables to see what influence that RF/EMI had on the signal transmission and power transmission. They concluded that the measured distortion was high enough to cause some signal degradation but the signals could be adjusted at the source with a device to ensure signal integrity and cables could be constructed in a way to prevent signal loss and to mitigate against RF/EMI. Active shielding is one way to mitigate these problems. Another, of course, is higher gauge shielding around a specific type of wire loom. They did not have the computing power back then to make solid recommendations. 

 

My take away is that cables need to be created in a way to support the application for which they will be used. In other words, there is a rationale for using 12-16 gauge wire with dense shielding in a noisy environment. I know of only a few companies that provide technical and noise measurements with their cables and maybe 1 or 2 companies that have active shielding. For those who want technical parameters to suit their systems, these cables provide that information. For some people, it’s cut and dry, spend more for better, or for others, don’t spend more for the same. For others, spend money on cables that meet the requirements for your system with published specifications. This is where there is no real price equation as the consumer will purchase the cable based off the merits of the specifications that meet their system requirements. 
 

Every electronic device in the chain has a noise opportunity for which it must be countered. 
 

BTW, very nice room. I thought I had a bunker. Yours is mine on steroids. Great job.

johnread57's avatar
johnread57
237 posts
 

Oh, don’t you hate it when the post you are writing, including attachments, disappears because you tested the photo link in the preview and cannot go back? Shoot...again once more...

Top is new cable and below is replaced cable.

Replacement cable 1

Replacement cable shot 2

Replacement cable shot 3

Replacement cable shot 4

The replacement cable is a 2x6ga hot wire with double shielding over the previous cable. Sound went from rich to deep, from articulate to spacious in 3D. The KRIX Harmonix speakers driven by the Audio Research D240MKII are room-filling now. Surprisingly, this replacement cable is in my Marantz AV8805. It was as good as anything I’ve had, including PassLabs, Esoteric, and Krell, among others. Now if I could post a couple of videos I have on hand...to demo that not all cables are the same. 

donavabdear's avatar
donavabdear
508 posts
 

It is very simple to see the difference cables make, simply do a frequency / amplitude and noise test with the old cable and with the new cable the difference is the difference. These aren't magical impressions that aren't measurable, audio is very easily measured unlike tase or some subjective sense. Sound is objective and easy to test.

 

More to discover