Discerning a difference between streamers is difficult...only me or common for all?


I have struggled to appreciate the upgrade to the streamer in my system. A couple years ago I had an Audio Research DAC 8 being fed by a Bluesound Node 2i. I picked up an Aurender N10 and did not appreciate anything so sold the N10. I tried a couple all-in-one units. First was the Aurender A20 and I was happy but curious about dCS. I got a Bartok 2.0 and felt the music was more natural sounding from the Bartok and sold the A20. I have always wanted the Audio Research DAC 9 to match all my other AR gear so got one that showed up on eBay a couple weeks ago. Since I couldn’t use the Bartok to stream I ordered a new Bluesound Node Nano so I could utilize the DAC 9 immediately. The pair sounded wonderful but I did not compare it to the Bartok. I ended up getting a quick buyer and it was already gone. The following week I purchase an Aurender W20. I was prepared to have my mind blown....but no. Some albums I could not tell any difference in the sound and others I think the W20 sounded slightly better but again...nothing huge. For the money and the space the W20 took on my shelf, I sold it. Over the years I always appreciate upgrades for all other components. This makes me feel like I am losing my mind. Have any others experienced this regarding streamers? I want to try more. Auralic and Lumin are on my list.

Thanks,

Dana

dhite71

@audphile1 

While I respect your opinion and take on Ref 6, I would like to point out an important distinction - you do not have an all out ARC system.  At the time, I was running Aurender N10 through DAC9 ➡️ Ref 6 ➡️ GS150 and I could discern no appreciable differences between N10 and BS Vault feeding SPDIF/BNC inputs of DAC9. 

Later, switching to EMM Labs DA2 DAC revealed the not so subtle differences between the two aforementioned streamers. So my previous post was strictly referencing my experience with N10/Vault in an all out ARC system. 

This has been an enjoyable discussion to learn of others' experiences.  I definitely feel more confident but still puzzled that these Aurender streamers are not showing more of an improvement in my system.  I enjoy trying new equipment so will look at other brands when it makes sense.  For now, I am enjoying the cable upgrade, I just talked to Captain at Audio Envy and ordered his coax.

@mdalton you may have nailed it. And it would support @lalitk findings as well.
@lalitk I only spoke about the Ref 6. It’s crazy if the DAC just homogenizes all digital sources.

 

But….how does all this explain differences the OP is hearing between digital cables?

@dhite71 yes excellent discussion! I now know if I sell my Bricasti DAC and get an ARC DAC9 I can also sell my Aurender, pick up a $450 BS Node, and pocket the cash from the Aurender sale! I am only half joking here by the way LOL

@dogearedaudio

I mean, "grooves are grooves," right? Is one person’s system "broken" because it sounds different from another person’s system?

It’s a very different situation because the groove on a record hasn’t been transferred to an abstract definition during the recording process, while the digital file has been. Because of this, each vinyl record is a one-off, with it’s own set of unique sonic characteristics that weren’t intentional, but are indelibly intermixed with the intended signal. No mechanism was used to keep them separated, and no mechanism can tease them back apart.

Each copy of a digital file, assuming no errors crept in, is identical, because it’s a definition, not a direct analog representation. The server’s job is just to serve up that definition, and there’s no excuse for a server doing anything other than that because the engineering has been solved. Any decent cable will allow a bit perfect information transfer to the DAC, as has been shown by capturing the bits into a file on the other end of the toslink, usb, or whatever, and then comparing the sent file to the received file.

Jitter artifacts are typically below the audible threshold of mere mortal humans even on $8 dacs running a synchronous signal through a cheap digital coax. 

I think it was on this forum that I read about a guy who was playing test tone LPs, and noticed that something as simple as a sine wave sounded better from LP than from CD. When he analyzed the waveform, the CD produced what looked like a nearly perfect sine wave. The LP produced something only vaguely similar to a sine wave. It added a lot of other stuff, which is why he liked it better. Pure sine tones aren’t pleasant sounding if you ask me.

So no, there’s no equivalence between saying ’bits is bits’ and ’grooves is grooves.’ Because bits is bits when comparing two copies of the same recording, while grooves ain’t. They’re just very similar. And different cartridge designs are going to result in much larger output differences than different dac designs, assuming the dacs are all reasonably competent, and the vast majority are. From what I’ve seen, the most suspect ones are the most expensive and least expensive.

This is why I would say that if server software is producing a different sound, something somewhere along the data chain is not working to specification, or there is some intentional DSP going on to add some kind of effect to make the server sound different than it would if it delivered an accurate file to the DAC.