I hate to say it, but now I think maybe I like my amp in ultralinear mode versus triode


It's a Cary V-12; it features a dozen EL34s and each pair has a switch in between them that configures that pair to either triode or ultralinear. In full triode Cary listed in the specs that it makes 50 wpc and in full ultralinear 100 wpc.   For most of the twenty three years that I have owned this amp I have always felt that I preferred triode except for the occasions that I wanted to full out blast (it has literally been many years since I've felt the need to full out blast).

However, today I experimented with a couple of things in my system, and after listening to the same "Jazz Essentials" (compilation) red book CD a couple of times all the way through, the next thing I experimented with was switching to full ultralinear.

Maybe there was more "PRaT"?  (Which is a term I am still not sure that I completely grasp.)  Maybe . . . but what I do feel I noted for sure was that the imaging (particularly the imaging in the center) had more weight (meatier?) and was presented more forward, which I actually like.

I put a few more hours in (one more time with Jazz Essentials, Holly Cole/It Happened One Night, Dave's True Story/Sex Without Bodies, selected tracks from Rebecca Pigeon/The Raven and Once Blue/self titled and Norah Jones/Feels Like Home) after switching to ultralinear.  (No booze during this session, just coffee.) The jury is still out on this, but I do have some CDs in mind that I want to listen to over the next few days as I continue to evaluate.  

immatthewj

@immatthewj Not exactly. But its likely that one tube type in that list will perform better than others. That’s a bit different from saying that it will ’work’; sure it will play but the output transformer should be optimized for a particular tube.

@atmasphere , although I do not understand circuit topology what you write does make sense. I’ve often found that tools that are advertised as fulfilling multiple functions do not work as well as a tool that is designed to perform one specific task. And hand tools are much simpler to understand and work with than circuits are.

As far as rolling tubes, I am not trying to speak for Dennis Had, but from reading the writeups he provides for several of his products (including the V12, from which I sort of recently quoted the manual), I sort of get the impression that he likes tube rolling. I remember reading one of the blurbs he wrote for one of his fairly recent SET amps, and he described it as (I belive the words he used were) ’a tube roller’s dream.’ Anyway, as far as the V12, after reading through the recent posts I am going to assume that it was "voiced" (I’ve read that term elsewhere) for the EL34 and after reading the recent responses on this thread, I am not going to mess around with other tubes. (Although I do have three different quads of 6550s for another amp that I am not using right now, and if worst came to worse, I could drop one of those quades in and bias the amp for two tubes per side). I’d also note that in the manual, Mr. Had writes about the virtues of the triode circuit toplology, and from what he writes about the V12, I am assuming that he includes the V12 in pushpull. Meaning that I guess he probably "voiced" the V12 in triode, but for at least the present moment, I am preferring UL.

@xenolith , I was going to jokingly type thgat you are a buzz-kill, but a lot of jokes are not taken as such. In reality, I wouldn’t be surprised if you are correct. I don’t have much of a grasp on the subject of circuit topology and back when I was setting up my system (the ’90s), I didn’t have a computer and didn’t know about A’gon, and what I learned was from reading Stereophile, what dealers told me, trial and error, and what manufacturers and their tech guys told me when I called them to ask questions about their products.

Anyway, if I NOW had the wherewith all to start completely over from the ground up, I would do a lot of things differently. However, I retired early and I made a few bad life choices before Idid, so I am probably going to find a way to try to be as happy as I can with what I have. But I will add that before the V12 I had a couple of strictly UL products, including a pair of ARC VTM120s which I have referred to previously in this thread, and if they were more relaible than they turned out to be, I’d still own them, and although aural memories (at least mine) are often flawed, going from the ARCs to the V12 was, at best, a lateral move. As far as the sonic presentation, that is. But when I flip the switches to turn the Cary on, I do not have to cross my fingers, and that is worth something.

@decooney , I really liked the sound of my V12 with the Ruby branded EL34s it came with, and I am assuming that those were the same as the Chinese tubes you just referred to.  I don't think that I will be rolling any tube types other than the EL34s.  In an emergency I guess I might try rebiasing to two tubes perside, and trying those old NOS Tung Sol 6550s I got from Andy way back when.  Maybe.

I also remember a couple of conversations we had about biasing that amp.  I di try backing it way down, and I didn't think I liked it at the time.  But maybe that was a preconceived notion I had that low bias couln't be good.  At the moment I have both sides set at just under 270.  As long as I am experimenting with different things, I'll back it off tonight.  I was thinking about 240 mA aside and going from there.  Also, when I last experimented with backing the bias off, I was listening in triode, and triode was another of my preconceived notions that I turned out being open to rethinking.

Thanks for taking the time to replay, you always offer a lot of insight when answering my V12 questions.

@mulveling

@gs5556

@atmasphere

Enjoyed reading all your comments to explain this technical area. Very difficult to understand things without a diagram and that’s what’s needed here.

I think the term ultra linear is marketing in nature and I dare say most people have no clue what they’re buying when they do. I remember loudness controls on a receiver I had a while back and was curious at times and clearly pushed more power through the circuits. It’s all about compromise which can be understood without getting terribly technical and my decision was to do biamping of a solid state and tube amplifier. At least the harmonics are more favorably affected and I do really like isolation of tubes in the upper area and let solid state handle the heavy duty stuff below. It seems to be working pretty well so far.

But again it would be kind of nice to see a diagram of all this to better understand the differences between modes of operation which on this amplifier tend to be switchable so easily which always raises skepticism in my tiny mind. But ultra linear does drift more toward solid state and isn’t that what we’re really saying overall after all

@immatthewj Also, when I last experimented with backing the bias off, I was listening in triode, and triode was another of my preconceived notions that I turned out being open to rethinking.

Thanks for taking the time to replay, you always offer a lot of insight when answering my V12 questions.

Does your V12 still have the original Audio1 coupling caps installed in it?

Worth flipping it over when you remove the tubes, pull the cover and check. Installing really good caps in that amp brings it to another level of enjoyment.

Does your V12 still have the original Audio1 coupling caps installed in it?

@decooney , no, it came with Jensen caps, and so far that is the only true failure (one of those original caps), and I won't go into the details, but I think that may have been my fault.

Anyway, I think you and I may have discussed this as well; I replaced all four caps and went with the Mundorfs. (I'd have to look at the receipt, but I am pretty sure they were the most expensive Mundorfs that PCX was selling at the time, so "air oil supreme" or something like that, but I'll check the receipt tommorrow and get back to you.  I think I remember you telling me that the caps I picked were okay, but would not have been your first choice.))