"Cleaning" Vinyl Makes It Worse Not Better!

@whart I agree with you about Neil Antonin. He has developed a very good manual cleaning method which no doubt does an excellent job. But if you have many records to clean it will take forever.

About five years ago I hooked up with Rush Paul, via the VPI forum, whose technique for US cleaning you also published. The biggest expense of that method is the Vacuum RCM. I use a VPI MW-1.

Neils statements about US and Vacuum RCMs are based on readings, not practical experience. With all of the research that went into the chemical formulations before Rush settled on his mix was done with chemists and audio engineers. I am skeptical that Neil can provide any more favorable methods for the US/Vacuum RCM technique.without that experience.

His tome contains a wealth of knowledge and has helped me better understand the value of the Rush Paul method. So far Triton-X100, which Neil said was being taken off the market years ago, is still available and all of the other ingredients are easily obtainable, even the 200 proof ethyl alcohol, which Neil said is not available. That has fueled my skepticism.

My system is very unforgiving to record noise. I went through half a dozen different methods. Since I have used this technique I am pleased to report complete silence with a black background.

’Nuf said.

@tuberculin- I have great respect for Rush and corresponded with him at one point. I think several people have put Neil's ultrasonic work into practice, using Elma machines in cascading baths with cooling systems and have reported on their results. If I were to paraphrase Neil, it would probably be to say "there is no 'one way'' to approach this. I'm not going to play the role of apologist though my interest as publisher of the work (at no charge and with no advertising income) does not make me a disinterested observer. 

I personally use a hybrid approach of manual cleaning w/ vacuum and a US with no chemistry. I think the ultimate goal here is to share knowledge, not to make ultimate declarations. And in that I am biased too- since both Neil and I have welcomed comments and criticisms, largely through the audio fora where people reached out with questions, comments and improvements, including the availability of certain chemicals. I'd like to think we are all in this together. 

Regards,

Bill Hart

@whart I agree with you. I am not knocking all the work that Neil has done. I was pointing out that he has made some pronouncements (to me) on the VPI forum and here that are not based on any fact or practical experience. I think he should leave it alone until he has. I've tried some of his suggestions and solutions. In my experience with some of it, besides being more elaborate and time consuming, the results were less that what I get with the simple Rush Paul method. I'm just sayin'.

If Neil were to buy a Vacuum RCM and a US RCM and used his magic to invent a technique for them I am all ears. I would be very interested in that, but trying based on his description, with no practical experience, I hesitate to go down that rabbit hole.

btw, Anybody heard from Rush?

Thanks. Len

If Neil were to buy a Vacuum RCM and a US RCM and used his magic to invent a technique for them I am all ears. I would be very interested in that, but trying based on his description, with no practical experience, I hesitate to go down that rabbit hole.

All the procedures that are in the book Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press which include vacuum-RCM, UCM and combinations thereof have been validated with users across the globe.

As far as 200-proof ethanol this is what the book says: Pure Ethanol is drinking alcohol and aside from the inebriating effects is very safe. But most Ethanol purchased is denatured (made undrinkable) with methanol, and methanol and IPA can be very toxic. I make no statement that 200-proof cannot be purchased.

As far as Triton X100, this is what the book says: However, Dow™ Triton™ X-100 is categorized as a nonylphenol ethoxylate (NPE) and NPE chemical compounds have aquatic toxicity and are being phased-out (ref: EPA, Nonylphenol (NP) and Nonylphenol Ethoxylates (NPEs), 8/18/2010, Action Plan, RIN 2070-ZA09 (21)). Dow™ Triton™ X-100 was banned for commercial use/sale in the EU/UK on 4 January 2021 unless an exemption has been authorized. Medical use is authorized through 22 December 2023.

Otherwise, I developed and patented cleaners and precision cleaning processes for the Navy for about 20-years and assisted setting up those procedures across the globe with our allies. Those processes included ultrasonics anything from simple bench top to massive systems with 400-gallon tanks.

You can believe it or not, but I have lots of on-hands practical experience, and I have no need for the Edisonian technique of trial and error. If you understand the science, the mechanics and the chemistry, all you are doing at the end is tweaking the chemistry and process to match the user and equipment. Cleaning a record is not rocket science, but if it matters I do know how to clean rockets - I developed a spray cleaning procedure to clean a large aerospace contractor’s 30,000-gal liquid oxygen tank. But for those wed to trial and error, it’s a valid approach, just not very efficient.

The book discusses the “Rushton Paul” DIY ultrasonic cleaning formula Ultrasonic Cleaning, addressing each of the ingredients and what they mean. If you understood the chemistry (which the book addresses) of surfactants then you would understand why I recommend Tergitol 15-S-9; it’s essentially 4X more efficient which allows using less making rinsing easier.

As far as the manual process, I am open with stating that if you are cleaning more than about 6-records at a time, it’s not practical.

Otherwise, as the book states: All cleaning procedures specified herein are presented as only “a” way to clean a record. No claim is made there is only one way to approach the process. In the final analysis, the best cleaning process is the one that is best for you.

Take care,

Neil Antin

Right on @antinn 

Probably a friction stir welded tank my team built….ha. One million linear inches of weld without a defect… definitely NOT trial and error…