«Today’s Lyrics Are Pathetically Bad» Rick Beato

@ezwind,

If I wanted to take the time, I’m quite sure I could find videos from dozens of jazz and blues clubs and concerts all over the country and you’ll see very few young people in the crowd.

It sound like to me you’re just guessing? And you have no clue? I wondering where you live and what live venues you go to see Jazz? Jazz (and blues) is the one music that is our own. It is played all over the US and the world. I don’t care what city you are in, whether it be suburbia or metropolitan areas, there are Jazz clubs all over the US.

And when and artist gets a big following they may be fortunate to get a tour that takes them to small venues, to big venues and everything in between. Meaning when a band tours there is no rhyme or reason where they might or might not play, it’s where the band’s next gig is.

FWIW, my wife and I used to drive 2.5 hours to Oakland to see top Jazz artists at Yoshi’s, one of the premier Jazz clubs in the country. I’m talking about people like Joe Lovano, McCoy Tyner, Mark Turner, Jack DeJohnette, John Abercrombie, Cedar Walton, Dave Holland Quintet, Geri Allen, Billy Harper, Bobby Hutcherson, Vincent Herring, Bobby Watson, etc. Top players. This was roughly from 2005 to 2010, if memory serves. We attended 12 -15 shows during that time and by far the largest segment of the audience was always older white guys. Eventually Yoshi’s shifted from all Jazz to mostly contemporary R&B with a few bluesy or Smooth Jazz players sprinkled to the mix. I’m pretty sure they did this because they wanted to attract bigger crowds.

I haven’t been to a Blues show in a long time but when we did go, there was much greater variation in ages, compared to Jazz. I can’t say if this is still true.

Another venue closer to home in Folsom (Harris Center) used to include Jazz acts but that did not last for long. In fact, that last Jazz performance was saw was there -- Kenny Werner Trio. Great show.

«This paper discusses the changes in the demographics of young people attending jazz events. Since
1986 there has been a fall in attendances of young people in the 15-24 age groups which in 1986
accounted for 36% of the audience for jazz. In 2009-2010 the audience for jazz in the 16-24 age
groups was 11%.»

It is a UK study but it will be probably around the same % figure in the US.

https://www.chrishodgkins.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Changes-in-the-attendance-of-young-adults-at-jazz-events.pdf

«Stuart Nicholson argues for subsidy as a bulwark against the homogenisation of the market place for jazz:

We are, then, at a key moment in jazz history. The music is being reshaped and reimagined beyond the borders of the United States through the process of glocalisation and transculturation with increasing authority by voices asserting their own cultural identity on the music. Non-American musicians want to connect with their own surroundings and want to give the music life and vitality that is relevant to their own socio-musical situation, so they are broadening the expressive base of the music in ways over which American jazz has no control. Key to these developments in Europe is that they are not a response to commercial logic. Sheltered by subsidy from the homogenizing effect of this marketplace, the music has been able to grow and develop in ways musicians want, rather than conforming to the expectations of the marketplace or shaped by the conventions of previous practice (Nicholson, 2005).

On the other hand, Eric Hobsbawm in Uncommon People takes a different angle:

Is jazz becoming terminally fossilized? It is not impossible. If this should be the fate of jazz, it will not be much consolation that Clint Eastwood has buried Bird in a celluloid mausoleum and that every hairdresser and cosmetics store plays tapes of Billie Holiday. However, jazz has shown extraordinary powers of survival and self renewal inside a society not designed for it and which it does not deserve. It is too early to think that its potential is exhausted. Besides, what is wrong with just listening and letting the future take care of itself (Hobsbawm, 1998).

Many people wrestle with the word jazz; Peter Ind, jazz musician, environmentalist, painter and author says people “like the word but hate the music”. However, if jazz is that bad why do cosmetic companies, car dealers and car manufacturers fall over themselves to exploit the word jazz? A rhetorical question and best answered by the simple fact that there is a market out there with definable characteristics and with people who may only like one genre of jazz or a number of genres; or the “early adopter” who attends the innovative variety. Jazz is a broad church and when there is an altercation in the choir stall or the vestry, someone is busily adding an extension to the chancel.

Hobsbawm is right to let the music take care of itself but we should use every tool available to market jazz from the classroom to old and new media.

The answer to the question “how can you rebuild the audience aged 15-24 is inextricably bound up with access to hearing jazz. When you go to see a film you buy the ticket first ‘but music is different – and radio proves that whether it is a pop tune, a heavily political punk album or an experimental avant garde suite the key is very simple: people have to hear it – repeatedly if possible – and for free. After a while if you’re lucky people get to know and like the music. Sooner or later they are going to have to own it” (Dubber, 2007).

Exposure has always been – for jazz – a defining component that affects the eventual buying decision. For example, thejazz, the UK's first 24 hours-a-day digital national radio station launched at Easter 2007, had 334,000 listeners in the RAJAR survey period ending in June 2007. By the period ending 16 September 2007 the listenership had increased to 388,000 or an increase of 16 per cent. In addition to the 338k 15+ listeners to thejazz, there were 53,000 children under the age of 15 listening in each week (Byrnes, 2007). thejazz came off the air in March 2008 due to a proposed takeover bid.

To rebuild attendance at jazz events by the 16-24 year age group, the use of radio and new media is crucial and tactics need to be researched, developed and refined in a way that will enable promoters and musicians to gain access to the ears of young people and 16+ listeners.»

Chris Hodgkins
Jazz Services Ltd, London, UK

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/am-09-2013-0015/full/html

@ezwind ​​​​@stuartk,

I probably include more so called ’jazz artists’ such Roy Ayers. It’s So Sweet - Roy Ayres Ubiquity and Mystic Voyage - Roy Ayers Ubiquity.

Instead of just straight ahead or classic jazz folks. And even after those incluessions, the fact is many, many jazz artist have passed away, so I have to give sway to your arguments.

I also include acts such as Lalah Hathaway and Snarky Puppy as jazz acts when others would not. Your points are valid and always most welcomed here.

So check this out. This tune is entitled Something, which has a very mild swing to it and her vocals are stunning. Snarky Puppy feat. Lalah Hathaway - Something (Family Dinner - Volume One)

Here another ’stunner’ tune for you, it’s Snarky Puppy feat Chantae Cann - Free Your Dreams (Family Dinner - Volume One)

Y’all, please enjoy.

@mahgister

I like the idea of providing proof (works cited) to back up an opinion with facts as you have done. It's what you learn in college when you take breaks from binge drinking.

To be fair, however, much of the information you shared is some 14-17 years old. Meaning that 14-17 year old music fans are completely left out of your hypothesis. 

@devinplombier

Are folks here too dumb to use ChatGPT ourselves if we wanted to?

Let's do this, Dev.

So I asked A.I., "Is Jazz growing in popularity?" the answer is YES!!:

• Audience: The number of Americans who like jazz has increased, with one-third of adults reporting they like it, and 5% saying it's their favorite genre. 
• New audiences: Jazz is becoming more popular with younger people, including Gen Z. Some say that jazz is connected to rebellion and is easily adapted into other genres. 
• New artists: New artists are breaking into the scene, and mainstream artists are featuring jazz on their albums. For example, Kamasi Washington worked with Kendrick Lamar on an album. 
• Media presence: Jazz is being featured in mainstream media, including the Pixar movie Soul. 
• Club scenes and festivals: Jazz is being celebrated in vibrant club scenes and major festivals. 
• Streaming: Jazz streaming is growing, and eGift cards allow people to give jazz streaming platforms as gifts. 
• Education: Jazz education is growing in Asia, including China. 
• Cultural diplomacy: In South Africa, the government uses jazz as a tool of cultural diplomacy. 

Then I asked A.I., "Is Jazz music losing popularity?" The answer is YES!!:

• Sales

  In 2011, 11 million jazz albums were sold, but by 2014, sales had dropped to 2%. 

• Consumption

  In 2015, jazz and classical music represented only 1.3% of total US music consumption. 

• Statista survey

  In a survey by Statista Consumer Insights, jazz and blues were among the five genres people listened to the least in 21 out of 21 countries. 

• Festivals

  Wynton Marsalis noted that on a tour of jazz festivals in Europe, only two out of 10 bands were jazz bands. 

See, each opinion here (probably because everyone here is held in high regard and pretty much intellectually infallible!) inescapably holds a tinge of truth. It is why we hang here together; to enjoy all aspects of opinionated pieces, including the inaccurate ones. 

We all can agree that there is generally too much information to be gleaned on this argument that is decisive, so I say, let's agree to take Greenland by force! We just need a defining reason...drumroll please...the reason is MUSIC!!

So I asked A.I., What is the most popular music in Greenland?

• Greenlandic pop

  This genre is popular with both Greenlandic and international audiences. It's characterized by catchy melodies and lyrics about love, nature, and traditional culture. Greenlandic pop is often performed with traditional instruments like the flute, drum, and accordion, as well as modern instruments like electric guitars and synthesizers. Some well-known Greenlandic pop artists include Julie Berthelsen, Angu, and Rasmus Lyberth. 

• Greenlandic rap

  Tarrak is a big name in the third wave of Greenlandic rap. His music is said to re-establish an Inuit identity and negotiate the meeting of tradition and modernity. 

• Underground bands

  Greenland has a number of underground bands in the heavy, punk, and nü metal genres. Some of these bands have achieved national recognition and released albums. 

• Polka is also popular at festive gatherings in Greenland. Folks in Greenland like to binge drink and occasionally one of the drunks professes to know how to play the accordion.

PERSONALLY, I inexplicably move my hips when I hear Polka. And who here doesn't like catchy melodies about love, nature and culture?? The reason may be because we don't own it? If we owned love, nature and culture, we just might be able to reason with Panama! And the Panamanians can really put on a show!