2. digital
  3. 192710-196145

ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT

Folks I am confused why some streamers need to be so eye wateringly expensive. I appreciate the internal basics need to be covered such as a high quality, low noise power supply and a decent processor speed etc..  but that is not rocket science.

So my question is could a decent streamer outputting its data stream via I2S to a good quality DAC receiving the I2S stream be a more cost effective way of rivalling let’s say a streamer costing 5k upwards.

I have heard and digested the argument for expensive streamers quality being centred around the management of the data timing via a quality clock circuit but there are very reasonable in relative terms, DAC’s out there that have dual super high quality temp controlled clocks within, at least the equal or arguably even better than the say a 5k streamer with some sporting dual high end DAC chips etc.

So could utilizing a good quality streamer and a separate high-quality DAC connected via I2S indeed offer significant benefits and potentially reduce the need for a very expensive streamer.

I say this with the knowledge that I2S is designed to preserve and separate the Signals so avoiding the timing issues connected with multiplexing. I2S (Inter-IC Sound) separates the music signal from the timing signal, potentially eliminating jitter or at the very least greatly reducing the possibility for the pesky music killing jitter which we all could agree would lead to improving overall sound quality.

Wouldn’t this separation ensure that the timing information is more accurately preserved, even when compared to a high price streamer, leading as clean or cleaner and more precise audio data output. With I2S, the DAC can use its own high-quality clock/s to synchronize the data, which will reduce jitter and improve sound quality.

Could this possibly mean that even if the streamer has a less advanced clock, the DAC’s superior clock can take over, ensuring best  performance.

So bang for buck would it not be advantageous to investing in a high-quality DAC and using a good but not necessarily top-tier streamer to achieve excellent sound quality without the need for an extremely expensive streamer. Surely the DAC’s performance will play a crucial role in the final sound quality.

Play gentle with the pile on please....................

nubiann
nubiann OP
13 posts
 

It’s like you never even read my initial response because I thought I provided a pretty clear explanation of what a streamer does and why it’s important.  The digital chain is only as strong as the weakest link, so if you choose to skimp on the streamer and it’s not on the level of your DAC it will be a bottleneck to the DAC’s performance.  Please go re-read my initial response more carefully as it does answer your questions.

Sorry I didn't read your post, I skipped through on my phone last night and must have spun past your contribution. Thank you for commenting. I do have a question though and please bear with me if I am not really getting this. If a decent but not considered high end streamer ouputs via I2S and is connected to an accepted excellent DAC which accepts I2S, is then compared to a top end streamer connected to the same DAC but via USB lets say. Is the outcome a slam dunk to the expensive streamer. I understood that I2S properly implemented all but elliminates the possiblity of timing errors, so if as is being said the whole raison d'etre of high end streamers is to provide a clean signal to the DAC so it doesnt have to work as hard and this results in a better audio signal, I2S should win this contest or?

nubiann OP
13 posts
 

Yes,  it's the cheap DACs and streamers that have really been pushing I2S.  It's a shame people are basing their choice on a connection with no universal standard 

Ben of Mojo Audio has stated more than once that I2S is not his preferred scheme.  An excerpt from their site

Thanks for the information really usefull observations I was considering DAC's and Streamers that offer the best availble interfaces and having head the difference in a CD player using a fairly short (Not 4") but short Audioquest Carbon I2S I was considering the possiblity of using a very good streamer with an exceptional DAC.  But I appreciate that this may be a "red herring" Still learning and I guess I will just continue to ask dumb questions until I arrive at the right answers

big_greg
6,660 posts
 

The DAC and what it does to produce the analog signal that is sent to your speakers is the most important part of your digital chain. i2s vs. USB vs. coax, etc., R2R vs.FPGA, etc. matter less than the implementation of the conversion to analog.

To provide some real life examples...

When I upgraded from a Roon Nucleus to a Rockna Wavedream Net server, I heard very little if any in sound quality.  

When I added a HDMI it i2s converter to my Oppo 203 to send the DSD signal from SACDs and also Redbook CDs to my Rockna DAC, instead of using the DAC in the Oppo, there was a significant improvement in sound quality and musical enjoyment. 

Moving from a TEAC streamer to a Roon Nucleus/Aqua La Voce S3 resulted in a significant increase in sound quality.

Moving from that to Roon Nucleus/Rockna Wavedream Signature DAC resulted in a significant increase in sound quality.

Moving from the Roon Nucleus to the Rockna Wavedream Server, almost no difference.

It all matters, but 90% or more of the magic happens in the DAC, that's where I recommend making the biggest investment in your digital chain.

roadcykler
158 posts
 

If you believe that more expensive = better by default, you've already succumbed to the fallacy of "you get what you pay for." 

larry5729's avatar
larry5729
1,009 posts
 

I wonder if this has been blind test?  Could it be if you spend $10,000 you automatically are hearing a significant difference?  Are we splitting hairs or is it worth the money.  I don’t have knowledge this group has that is for sure.

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