Preamps built Into DACs

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Thanks Steve, the reason that I started this thread is that some of the DACs that I'm interested in that have great reviews are DAC/pre units.

I'm a die-hard Audio Research tube preamp guy. I love their sound and I won't entertain any discussion about replacing it with a preamp from a DAC.

Offerings from Antelope Audio and Empirical Audio have well regarded DACs, but they also include a preamp. I can't help but wonder what my savings would be if there were no preamp attached to those units.
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I" can't help but wonder what my savings would be if there were no preamp attached to those units."

It's not about saving money. Its about removing a serious number of veils. Nothing quite like it.

I used a highly modified Levinson pre for years. Mostly wired with silver wire, point-to-point and lots of Black Gates etc.. Nothing like the stock ML. I though it was really transparent, until I developed a DAC volume control. The pre has been gathering dust for years now. Not even close.

The only thing I have found that approaches the tranparency and air of this is a good transformer linestage, such as the Music First. I actually use a transformer buffer now, using the Finemet transformer technology from Feastrex. Even better.

The only requirement for a transformer linestage is that the output drive on the DAC be sufficient. Op-Amp outputs can stay at home.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

There do seem to be certain components that manufactrurers love to combine and DAC Preamps is one of them. I am no EE and don't understand the allure but you do see a lot of them. Amp builders I have spoken to seem to get a charge (no pun intended) out of building preamps. The reason remains somewhat unclear but to the ones I spoke with it was the challenge of the circuit. I somehow doubt that is why, I think it more an economical one and we need a frank discussion of that.

Audio-Gd has several, this is his starting price point ($549 no remote, $599 with) they go up to about $1900

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB-10.1/NFB10.1EN.htm
Tim

Preamps, great active preamps, are a must for me. Without it music is
simply not as musical to me. So preamp builders please build on! To my
ears a proper stereo system needs a great active tubed preamp.

To me, I would be wasting money on my system not having my active tube
preamp. So yes, stop putting a volume knob on all those DAC's so when I
buy one I'm not wasting money on that volume knob.

To each his/her own and this is just my experience and preference. Listen
on!