Preamps built Into DACs

In general, my only concern about a DAC and pre-amp in a single box would be how well is the pre-amp section shielded from RFI generated by the digital circuits/DAC? In general, I would prefer these in separate boxes separated by space as an insurance policy at a minimum. I would definitley not try to cram a low level phono section in there as well.....

A similar concern with integrated amps is proximity of power amp with transformers, etc. to the pre-amp section, again especially with phono. HEre the issue is more EMI than RFI perhaps, but I would prefer separates here as well to physically separate the two as an insurance policy at minimum. Often, noise levels in circuits can affect the sound quality in subtle ways well before any effects are clearly audible.

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Thanks Steve, the reason that I started this thread is that some of the DACs that I'm interested in that have great reviews are DAC/pre units.

I'm a die-hard Audio Research tube preamp guy. I love their sound and I won't entertain any discussion about replacing it with a preamp from a DAC.

Offerings from Antelope Audio and Empirical Audio have well regarded DACs, but they also include a preamp. I can't help but wonder what my savings would be if there were no preamp attached to those units.
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I" can't help but wonder what my savings would be if there were no preamp attached to those units."

It's not about saving money. Its about removing a serious number of veils. Nothing quite like it.

I used a highly modified Levinson pre for years. Mostly wired with silver wire, point-to-point and lots of Black Gates etc.. Nothing like the stock ML. I though it was really transparent, until I developed a DAC volume control. The pre has been gathering dust for years now. Not even close.

The only thing I have found that approaches the tranparency and air of this is a good transformer linestage, such as the Music First. I actually use a transformer buffer now, using the Finemet transformer technology from Feastrex. Even better.

The only requirement for a transformer linestage is that the output drive on the DAC be sufficient. Op-Amp outputs can stay at home.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

There do seem to be certain components that manufactrurers love to combine and DAC Preamps is one of them. I am no EE and don't understand the allure but you do see a lot of them. Amp builders I have spoken to seem to get a charge (no pun intended) out of building preamps. The reason remains somewhat unclear but to the ones I spoke with it was the challenge of the circuit. I somehow doubt that is why, I think it more an economical one and we need a frank discussion of that.

Audio-Gd has several, this is his starting price point ($549 no remote, $599 with) they go up to about $1900

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB-10.1/NFB10.1EN.htm
Tim