Preamps built Into DACs

So I ditched a $10K 2 box preamp (Modwright 36.5 LS/PS) in favor of a digital volume control, simple because taking it out sounded better to me.

Here is another consideration. Price / performance. Let's say you have a 4K DAC with a build in volume control, and you have $10K in the kitty for an upgrade. You can either buy a $10K preamp and put it behind your DAC (throw in some money for cabling too), or you can buy a $14K new DAC with volume control. In my experience the SQ improvement per $ of the DAC upgrade will be substantially higher than getting the preamp.

Again, I am talking from experience not theory. I recently spend $10K on upgrading my DAC and have fiddled with various preamps in the $5 - $10K range, and there is no comparison. Unless you have analog sources, preamps are dead end technology, and will eventually be replaced by the VC build into DACs. These DACs will also serve as the digital switching hubs. Some are integrating music servers, some will have digital room correction, cross-overs etc.

I think it comes down to the type of sound one likes. Both are ways to build a system and they yield different results - sound of music. As the post above states our actual experiences differ because we all like and are pleased by different sounding systems.

Edorr,
You have found a solution that works best for you and that`s a good thing.I`ll assume we are all basing our choices on 'actual' listening experinces.I don`t believe top quality preamps are "dead end technology" or will ever be,in fact they seem to be improving.

As long as there`re listeners who hear and appreciate the superior sound quality these preamps offer there will exist a market for them(this won`t include you obviously).
Grannyring summed up the sonic differences very well, I imagine we have similar hearing and listening priorities.Edorr, there`re certainly others who hear things as you also.

For those who say the improved body,tone and dynamics is a coloration, well all I know is this is much closer to what I always hear with live performances(for what ever the reason may be). Edorr you may find your approach is closer to what you hear live as well. At the end of the day we all choose what we feel sounds most right.The lean,clean,thinner sound(less tone and body) is far less realistic and convincing for me.I`ve made my choice.

Edorr, one look at our respective systems would make it clear we have certainly taken different paths to find our individual sonic bliss.
Best Regards,

It makes a lot of sense to bundle preamp and dac these days much like pre-amp and phono pre-amp have been bundled into some pre-amps for years. The fact is digital is the norm now, not phono. So it is a natural thing to do. May not be the best/right solution for all. THat is why there are still separates for purists who care, like me.

True digital integrated amps, like the NAD M2 (all integrated amp functions performed in digital mode except final conversion to analog to drive speakers, though that would likely be done Class D style as well) are the next logical step in the evolution of audio technology and will become more common over time. I would love to try one today and strongly believe this is where things will tend to go over time, and it will all be for the better soundwise as well....

Hey I know that is heresy to a lot of old time analog lovers like myself, but why resist progress? After all , we all love our HD TVS, right? No reason all digital audio cannot be as satisfying, even today. Its the wave of the future. BEst to ride it rather than resist it.

Charles, you are making the incorrect assumption that my current preference to take the (tube) preamp out of the chain is motivated by different preferance in sound (i.e. clean versus full bodied). I thinkg we both strive to recreate the experience of the live event - this has always been my reference.

I have been using tubes and preamps all my life (I have owned Cary 300B, Graaf OTL, Rogue preamp, Audiologic Tube DAC, Modwright preamp). I did not all of a sudden change my preference from "body, tone and dynamics", to a "clean" digital sound. For years, I made the same choice as you.

It just so happens, my current system (with digital volume control), give me a more body, tone and dynamics than anyting I have ever owned, tubes included. We have the same destination, but just get there with different technology.

I am not saying if you took out your tube pre and started using the PWD volume control the same would happen in your system. It is all system dependent.

But again, our music reproduction objectives are precisely the same.