Preamps built Into DACs

Charles, you are making the incorrect assumption that my current preference to take the (tube) preamp out of the chain is motivated by different preferance in sound (i.e. clean versus full bodied). I thinkg we both strive to recreate the experience of the live event - this has always been my reference.

I have been using tubes and preamps all my life (I have owned Cary 300B, Graaf OTL, Rogue preamp, Audiologic Tube DAC, Modwright preamp). I did not all of a sudden change my preference from "body, tone and dynamics", to a "clean" digital sound. For years, I made the same choice as you.

It just so happens, my current system (with digital volume control), give me a more body, tone and dynamics than anyting I have ever owned, tubes included. We have the same destination, but just get there with different technology.

I am not saying if you took out your tube pre and started using the PWD volume control the same would happen in your system. It is all system dependent.

But again, our music reproduction objectives are precisely the same.

"It just so happens, my current system (with digital volume control), give me a more body, tone and dynamics than anyting I have ever owned, tubes included. We have the same destination, but just get there with different technology. "

Myself, I would like to, and at this point feel pretty confident that I could, drop my tube pre-amp for a good SS replacement and still get the body, tone dynamics etc. I want. The reason would be to not have to deal with tube maintenance and replacement periodically, which is not cheap to do right. I have dabbled with tube and SS DAC (and pre-amp) options to date for example and that experience builds my confidence that either technology can work best. The devil is always in the details, which device specifically, how well does it mesh with the rest of the gear, etc.

"So far in my listening experiences premium quality tube preamps are an asset and clearly improve the sound quality."

I agree. For MOST systems, the tube pre is an improvement. However for well-designed DACs with volume controls, even these will be crushed. There are only a couple out there that accomplish this BTW, so it is likely that you have not heard them.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

"Even if you choose to go "no preamp"... there is still a preamp involved!! It's just a lower quality preamp, tagged onto the digital circuitry, sharing the same power supply as the digital section. No thanks!"

This is where you are dead wrong. You evidently missed some of my posts. There is actually "no preamp".

Steve N.

"It makes a lot of sense to bundle preamp and dac these days much like pre-amp and phono pre-amp have been bundled into some pre-amps for years. The fact is digital is the norm now, not phono. So it is a natural thing to do. May not be the best/right solution for all. THat is why there are still separates for purists who care, like me."

The distinction that needs to me made is between the DACs that just add a simple volume control in order to add the feature, and others that actually improve upon existing volume control technologies by using the infrastructure only available in a DAC.

Like so many preamps, active and passive, the devil is in the details.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio