$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path



I am putting together an analog system, starting with the cartridge. I like a well-balanced sound with a slightly lush midrange and excellent extension at the frequency extremes. The cartridge should be a reasonably good tracker. Here are my choices:

1. Dynavector Karat 17D MkII
2. Shelter 501
3. Sumiko Black Bird
4. Grado Statement Master
5. Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood

Which one comes closest to my wish list? Which one would you choose?

Here are the upgrade cartridges to the above list, one of which would be purchased later:

1. Shelter 901
2. Benz Micro L2
3. Grado Statement Reference
4. Koetsu Black

Which one comes closest to my wish list? Which one would you choose?

Now, which turntable/tonearm combination (for new equipment up to $4,500) would you choose to handle a cartridge from the first group and the upgrade cartridge from the second group?

Any help you can provide is greatly welcomed. Thanks!
artar1
Dear Twl: Your last two answers don't change in anyway the formula: cartridge/tonearm/turntable. Your answers confirm everyword I already post on the subject, between those words:" tonearm and turntable are really a "_necessary evil", because without them the transducer is unable to operate. However, it's important to remember that it is the transducer itself who has the main responsibility in LP reproduction, and the final result will depend firstly in this transducer quality, and secondly in the quality and matching of its partners ".
TKS for that.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Once again, someone explains things properly, in a clear, concise, and cogent manner, while someone else babbles some crap that nobody understands trying to support his point of view.

This is getting old.

Thanks for trying Tom.
I disagree, and stated reasons.

I could just as easily state that the "transducer" is the "necessary evil".

I maintain that the transducer is limited by the turntable, and that in real-world situations, a moderately good transducer working at maximim performance on a top-notch turntable, will outperform a top-notch cartridge working at reduced performance on a moderately good turntable.

You have given no reasons to back up your opinion, other than your opinion. I have heard your argument a million times and it has never "held water" yet.

I state that a cartridge which has more musical information properly fed into it, will outperform a more capable cartridge which has less musical information fed into it less properly. I backed up my case with reasons for my position. This would clearly place the turntable higher in the order of importance. I understand you disagree.

Tell me why.

I would totally agree with you, if your statement was "A better cartridge will sound better than a lesser cartridge, on the same turntable(so long as they match well with the tonearm)." However, when the discussion leads to the matter at hand, that is where we part company.

Regarding musical reproduction, it is understood that more recorded information getting into the system is paramount to improving the music. Correct me if I am wrong about that.

If a cartridge retrieves less musical information(or lost information, or speed corrupted information) from the recording(due to a flaw in the turntable performance), it cannot sound better. It can sound "smoother" or "flatter response", etc. but it cannot sound "better" because there is less musical information entering the system, or there is flawed musical information entering the system.

Conversely, if the cartridge retrieves more musical information from the recording(even if the cartridge is of lesser quality), it will sound better(more musical) because more of the music enters the system.

Certainly, this music can be affected by the quality of the transducer, but at least the music makes it into the system.

This is my point. A quality transducer cannot produce music that is lost or corrupted by a turntable flaw. Improving the transducer on a given turntable will improve the sound only to the degree that the turntable is capable of producing. To improve the sound further will require a better turntable. Once this point is reached, no transducer in the world will improve the music, until the turntable is improved.

Assuming that we have the best turntable in the world at present, then the arm and cartridge selected will have a chance at working at their best.
Improving the transducer on a given turntable will improve the sound only to the degree that the turntable is capable of producing. To improve the sound further will require a better turntable. Once this point is reached, no transducer in the world will improve the music, until the turntable is improved.

Raoul, is this so hard to understand?

That's why I play my records on the Creature. The platter spins records and plows through transients accurately. Because of that a modded integrated headshel DJ cartridge does the job extremely well...

***
Dear Twl:" and even gave a little test that people could do to verify, and placed no attack at you during my discussion. However, you have decided to take it upon yourself to say that I am wrong, and implied that I am misleading the members of this forum. That is not appreciatedand ...". I'm not attacking you, you put all that words not me, I only put : facts, sorry to disturb to you. " all turntables are acceptable in this regard, so that it matters not which turntable is used? Because if I've been going for all these years without knowing about a cartridge that can overcome ...", I never speak about: " it matters not wich TT is used?, all these are your own words.
Do it you a favor: read carefully my answers before you would be angry.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.