$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

I disagree, and stated reasons.

I could just as easily state that the "transducer" is the "necessary evil".

I maintain that the transducer is limited by the turntable, and that in real-world situations, a moderately good transducer working at maximim performance on a top-notch turntable, will outperform a top-notch cartridge working at reduced performance on a moderately good turntable.

You have given no reasons to back up your opinion, other than your opinion. I have heard your argument a million times and it has never "held water" yet.

I state that a cartridge which has more musical information properly fed into it, will outperform a more capable cartridge which has less musical information fed into it less properly. I backed up my case with reasons for my position. This would clearly place the turntable higher in the order of importance. I understand you disagree.

Tell me why.

I would totally agree with you, if your statement was "A better cartridge will sound better than a lesser cartridge, on the same turntable(so long as they match well with the tonearm)." However, when the discussion leads to the matter at hand, that is where we part company.

Regarding musical reproduction, it is understood that more recorded information getting into the system is paramount to improving the music. Correct me if I am wrong about that.

If a cartridge retrieves less musical information(or lost information, or speed corrupted information) from the recording(due to a flaw in the turntable performance), it cannot sound better. It can sound "smoother" or "flatter response", etc. but it cannot sound "better" because there is less musical information entering the system, or there is flawed musical information entering the system.

Conversely, if the cartridge retrieves more musical information from the recording(even if the cartridge is of lesser quality), it will sound better(more musical) because more of the music enters the system.

Certainly, this music can be affected by the quality of the transducer, but at least the music makes it into the system.

This is my point. A quality transducer cannot produce music that is lost or corrupted by a turntable flaw. Improving the transducer on a given turntable will improve the sound only to the degree that the turntable is capable of producing. To improve the sound further will require a better turntable. Once this point is reached, no transducer in the world will improve the music, until the turntable is improved.

Assuming that we have the best turntable in the world at present, then the arm and cartridge selected will have a chance at working at their best.

Improving the transducer on a given turntable will improve the sound only to the degree that the turntable is capable of producing. To improve the sound further will require a better turntable. Once this point is reached, no transducer in the world will improve the music, until the turntable is improved.

Raoul, is this so hard to understand?

That's why I play my records on the Creature. The platter spins records and plows through transients accurately. Because of that a modded integrated headshel DJ cartridge does the job extremely well...

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Dear Twl:" and even gave a little test that people could do to verify, and placed no attack at you during my discussion. However, you have decided to take it upon yourself to say that I am wrong, and implied that I am misleading the members of this forum. That is not appreciatedand ...". I'm not attacking you, you put all that words not me, I only put : facts, sorry to disturb to you. " all turntables are acceptable in this regard, so that it matters not which turntable is used? Because if I've been going for all these years without knowing about a cartridge that can overcome ...", I never speak about: " it matters not wich TT is used?, all these are your own words.
Do it you a favor: read carefully my answers before you would be angry.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I applaud TWL's excellent treatise on the relative importance of a turntable. His logical approach is compelling.

In my experience the turntable is the most critical part of an analog setup followed by the tonearm and then the cartridge. This has been debated before and while there is never complete consensus, there seems to be broad support for this position among experienced listeners. I hold to this position because of what I have heard from a broad spectrum of tables, arms and cartridges. Theory is nice, but is no substitute for actually listening.

Synergy between various components is of course important. But my experience tells me that tonearm, cartridge matching is what matters most. There are synergies that go well beyond simple compliance/mass matching that are often difficult to predict. I find that matching an arm/cart to a turntable to be much less of an issue. A good sounding arm/cart combination always works well with a good turntable.

So contrary to what some have said here, selecting a turtable first is a sound strategy.

Atar1,

My recommendation of the Aesthetix Rhea comes from my grounding in the Aesthetix Io Signature phono stage. The Io Signature simply is one of those components that can change your whole outlook on what is possible with vinyl replay and what supremely natural music reproduction sounds like. The Rhea gives one a very good sized slice of what the Io offers. Unfortunately, even the Rhea is expensive. But, if one's budget gets close, it's well worth a very hard look at whether one can possibly make that extra financial stretch. Purchase of any of the Aesthetix gear is a "never regret it" acquisition.

Regards,