$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

Another insightful post Twl. Listen to him folks, he knows of what he speaks. For maximum performance from an unsuspended table...

That squishy bit is best which squishes least, which finally amounts to this, that squishy bit is best which squishes not at all. (Apologies to Jefferson and Thoreau!)

If your goal is maximum performance...

Generally, when you start "pushing the envelope" in dynamics and resolution, then the "warts" of the system start to show themselves more negatively. This can be irritating to some people, and they prefer to damp down the system to cover up the warts from showing. That is pretty common these days.

Very true, though rather sad. I think alot of people are so traumatized by the problems they hear with RBCD that they can't bear the thought of more resolution. To them, that just means more sonic pain. This is a pity, since vinyl is capable of breathtaking micro-dynamics and resolution without such pain. It's just very hard to do, and unfortunately very expensive too.

We still enjoy pushing that envelope, but it gets harder as a system advances. You do learn more this way of course. If you can do this while still enjoying the music it's extremely rewarding. If you're just chasing detail for its own sake, "Wow! Did you hear that?", it may not be.

Guys,

Thanks for the info. I was thinking that perhaps a vibraplane or a slab of granite on top of the GPA would help but I will look into the idea of a shorter stand for the turntable and another stand for the other equipment. So I guess the general consensus is rigid stands all the time for all turntables.
I'm wanting to replace the Oracle and I've already stated my plans. My experience with tables mirrors yours Twl, with my brother's situation where his Ariston skips from footfalls and his rock hard Kenwood does not.

In the defense of the GPA amp stand I will say that while it has provided a quieter background I have not felt any loss of dynamics or a more "polite" sound. As someone who listens to noisy rock and roll, I am very sensitive to the overly "polite" presentation. I have auditioned some equipment that sounded extremely good until it had to handle something with complex rythmic drive and then it fell apart by sucking the life out of it. Overly refined.

This is great info and will help me make a better evaluation when I demo the rack this upcoming weekend. You guys have pointed out very important issues for me to be listening for and that will make this a more useful demo as a result. While I am seeking to lose mechanical noise from vibrations I am not looking to overdamp the sound.

Detail is very important to me and I wish to capture a larger sense of dynamics and the subtlety of dynamic shifts as they occur. But overall musicality is the issue. I recently heard a Levinson system driving Wilson Watt Puppies and was struck by the massive control of the speaker, the huge amount of detail and giant staging, but overall it struck me as hard and unmusical. I heard Wilson's in a Musical Fidelity context and it was the opposite though, it sounded too soft but more musical. Much like Goldilocks, I'm looking for "just right".

Believe, me, I am looking for more resolution and will continue to push the envelope as much as possible as my system advances. I appreciate the info I get here to help me see the underlying issues and to be a better listener. And as Doug put so well, it's all in the service of the overall musicality.

Thanks guys,
Chris

Chris, you are going the right way, by auditioning these different things. Nobody can tell you what is "right for you", except you. We can only make suggestions based on what our past experiences have been, and we don't have your system and listening environment here at our homes.

To find your "Goldilock's" products which sound "just right" will require your listening to various things to see what makes the most impact on your listening sensitivities.

That is the best way to proceed.

Regarding your GPA amp stand, I have no doubt that it was a nice sounding addition to your system. However, sometimes there are some differences in the applications, like turntables vs amps. And again, there are differences in listening tastes.

One day, call me up and get one of the Sistrum stands to listen to. We'll be happy to take it back if you don't like it. I'm betting you'll keep it. I have an extremely high resolution and very dynamic audio system, with analog-only source, state-of-the-art SET OTL amp, and 100db sensitivity speakers, all battery powered, which will resolve the most hidden details that are below most other system's noise floors. I use Sistrum and Audiopoints under everything, and I don't have to do it just because I work for them. I do it because the sound improvement is significant. I gained an extra db and a half of headroom, just by using this stuff. My already good dynamics were improved quite a bit, detail was even better, and everything was more "in focus". The results of the Sistrum platforms under my speakers was amazing. All cabinet resonances that caused some of the colorations was eliminated, and resulted in an extraordinary improvement in my speaker performance. The Audiopoints vs the BDR cones that came standard with my Teres TT, was much in favor of the Audiopoints. And these are both rigid type points. I've had superb results from this stuff in my system, and that was why I went to work for Starsound.

you lucky boys all that disposable income to spend on a needle.

Twl,

After I demo the GPA I will give you a call, give me the number. I'll ask for Twl the Audio guru. Seriously I greatly appreciate the feedback that I've gotten from you and others. I should give Sistrum a try, I've got nothing to lose but the shipping which is neglible.

BTW, I am familiar with your system and am anxiously awaiting for you to finally post a photo of your custom made beauty!

I am very interested in what you say about Sistrum and speakers as well. I'll look at the website and see what the options are.
I have used BDR cones extensively and have found them better than the brass cones that I used before but I have not tried Audiopoints. I was getting good results with BDR so I felt satisfied in that respect but, there's always more performance to tweak out of a system.

When I get the GPA I'll also experiment with the turntable on and off the Bright Star, that will also give me some data on what's going on with the rack. Though it's a suspended table, it'll have to do. I won't be buying my new table until next year so no testing with a Teres(or a Galibier) for now.

Thanks,
Chris