Is extremely accurate "VTA" adjustment necessary?

Thank you all for your responses.

4yanx - Thanks for your response. Of course I could just go ahead and get the vta adjuster anyway. I just wanted to have some more rational reasons before handing out $200 for vta. Since everybody here seems to agree that differences in record thickness need vta adjustment possibility, it would be difficult to find a better solution for the price.

Rushton - Thank you very much for all the details about the Walker Proscenium turntable. Out of own experiences I know that any tolerance below a thousands of inch takes a lot of effort and care and is certainly not cheap to produce. I very much doubt that my Michell turntable is even close in tolerances. I never had a chance to see the Walker table live, I would be very interested to see the solution they found for a rigid vta adjuster. Another number I am really interested in is the thickness variation of a record. I probably should call Classic records to find out what the tolerances are in the production of their current Quiex LP's. I'll keep you updated if I find out more.

Psychic - For now I was more thinking along the lines of an acrylic platter, which is probably closer in tolerances. I doubt I will be able to afford a Teres with wood platter anytime soon.

Raul - Thanks for your support. So far I haven't really worried too much about vta. I do have a Rega arm which is a pain to adjust on any table. The Michell vta adjuster (or the incognito for that matter) is fine but I suspect it is going to have exactly the mechanical problems mentioned in the article. The vta I found with the adjuster was actually close (less than +-0.5mm) to the 2mm Rega spacer, which I thought sounded actually slightly better when I changed it. I would certainly appreciate a more solid vta solution, however I doubt I will play with vta adjustment too much. I usually adjust everything in my system so that I really like the way it sounds and then usually just leave it alone for a while and just enjoy the music. As with respect to my experience in analog: I only have had three different turntables and four cartridges, which certainly does not make me an expert. Also I never really had a high-end setup. Also I do think Doug does give good and thoughtful answers. I have posted several times in the same thread as Doug and I always thought he was quite spot on. Also on Personal turntable/cartridge evolution he did mention that he had a various tables since 1967. (If you get a chance it would be great if you would post your history there as well.) Otherwise, I agree: Enjoy the music.

Also one more comment: I just think the science perspective on audio has always led to heated debates, and vta adjustment is right on the line in that respect. I would prefer though if we can keep personal attacks aside.

All the best to everyone,

Rene

Rene,
I reread the article and understand that a key aspect of it is your question, "Is it really VTA/SRA changes that we're hearing or is it something else?" Apologies if I seemed to be dismissing it. This article has been used or mis-used both here and elsewhere by those with non-scientific motives. I suppose I was responding to those rather than to the article itself.

"Why don't we hear the variation in VTA as the LP rotates, since this variation is much bigger than changing the arm height by .005'"

That is a good question. Finding answers could indeed lead to improvements in music reproduction on vinyl. Even if the TT is perfect, many records are not. Neither Rushton nor I have vacuum hold-down, though I do use a periphery clamp. Even with two clamps however, some records just aren't flat. This makes the question very interesting. Wish I could suggest a satisfactory answer, but at the moment I can't.

The theory of changing resonant behavior doesn't seem completely satisfactory when the same differences are being reported across multiple, high quality rigs. I wonder if that theory came from the well-observed behavior of Rega style arms, which DO change audibly every time you adjust the arm locking nut?

It is *possible* to carelessly adjust arm height on a TriPlanar in such a way that its sonic character *might* be effected. The VTA tower raises/lowers the arm on a large diameter threaded rod. The good aspects of the design include a long thread contact area, to prevent wobbling about the vertical axis, and a set screw that pulls the entire mechanism tight against the outer housing. Lots of contact area, not just one screw point. Still, as with any mechanical device, there is some play in the mechanism. For example, one can approach any given arm height setting from either above or below. If one approaches a particular setting from above, the slack in the threads may not all be taken up. For this reason, I always adjust by bringing the mechanism *up* to a setting before locking the set screw. I can actually feel the weight of the arm moving up, so gravity is helping defeat any looseness in the threads. I also give the arm support a little nudge back and forth while turning the set screw to lock the setting in. This assures that the set screw mechanism is solidly seated. When carefully adjusted like this, a TriPlanar is quite rigid. Once it's locked down, any attempt to move the arm mount in any direction simply moves my 60 lb. turntable, without affecting the arm mount itself as far as one can tell by feel. No, I'm not going to pick up the table by the tonearm to test that!

I suppose it's possible that the mechanism's resonant behavior could change when I raise or lower the arm a few thousandths of a mm, but the kind of musical changes I described above don't seem to be consistent with that model, at least to me. They seem more consistent with the idea that the timing of when the playback stylus hits each individual groove modulation must match the timing as they were originally cut. SRA in other words. :-( Back to where we started.

Thank you Rushton and Restock for your supportive comments, and for even taking the time to unearth examples of why these attacks are without basis. I guess that's what honest men do. This little vendetta has appeared on multiple threads in the last couple of weeks, for whatever reason. I have chosen not to respond so as not to contribute to any deterioration in our normally enjoyable atmosphere. I will continue that policy. We all disagree from time to time, but that's no reason to poison the room. One wonders why the moderators haven't stepped in.

One point Raul made does need elaboration. "The industry standard for cutting head VTA is 20 degrees..." That may be true today, but manufacturing variances happen at all times and millions of records were cut before the standard existed. Old Deccas/Londons, for example, were cut at lower angles than more modern ones. If one only listens to recent releases then Raul's point would be more valid.

Golly, I sure hope Rushton's platter is flatter than mine. He paid enough for it. Why don'cha know, last Summer my li'l Teres actually absorbed 158 pounds of airborne moisture (Raul measured it for me). Why it blowed up so much it looked like Jabba the Hut. The spindle turned into an "inny"!

There are some very interesting answers, but honestly, after reading, most of the readers will know, why the CD had so much success.

Anyway, in real life the VTA is important, but I think, when some will hear every nuance from every little bit of a hair when changing, what is happening when the record has a little warp ? Or one bigger and a flat one ? And where are they ? In the middle ? Or more inside ? 80 g pressing or 180 g ?
Throw them away, adjusting every time again, depending on the warp of a record, or it's thickness or on air pressure or, or depending on the new power cord or ...( endless ).

What do you do without a vacuum hold down ?
Getting mad ?
Anyway, there will be always differences, I can hear it while using Vacuum or not, without changing the VTA.
Next is, some cartridges are more sensitive for VTA than others, some sound very good in a wide range of setting than others... there are so many points to do something, it is not easy to find the "only" point. More important than VTA is the adjustment for Azimuth in my opinion, that's the real thrill .... Anyway, enjoying the music is not easy, it is a tough task, to find the right "note", only a few will find the light in the darkness ...( I am joking ) Happy screwing

Rene:

The wool felt mat is apprx. 1/16", or a bit less due to the felt compressing. I use one and/or two of the same mats along with an 8 ounce record weight. I suppose that garment/upholstery wool would work if thinner mats/shims are required. Not thinking I recently discarded a moth damaged Winter weight Burburry wool suit (should have saved a few 12" sqaures of material from the back of the jacket).

The cork I purchased (to make the Spot Mats) was spec'd in millimetres, but I've since tossed the packaging. The materials look to be approx. 1/16" and a bit less than 1/8", so figure less than 1/16" difference between the lower/higher mats.

A simple Spot Mat can be made with a sheet of paper and cork "rounds". Not very durable, but it will allow you to see if the design works with your deck. I've also used felt Spot Mats, but prefer the cork versions.

Not a perfect solution, by any means, but the added height does improve the sound of thin LP stock quite a bit.

Thomas is back...and Raoul hasn't followed my prescription!

Raoul, not to defend Dougdeacon--he hasn't asked for help--but I am surprised at all he's improved in such little time. That he's obsessive, yes he is. He goes into an area that's against my ethics. My TT has *on the fly* VTA adjustment and I just did an average setting. Raoul, you *need* to do the internal cleansing and the ocean wash--for real.

Thomas brings an excellent point regarding digital. Feeling blackmailed by e-Bay and surfrace noise I took a serious effort to make my digital rig sound really good, even though the majority of my recordings ( 3 out of 4 ) were vinyl. The effort payed off beyoncé my expectations.

And once more, Thomas hit it right on the money with the Azimuth adjustment. That's the real critical adjustment and all protractors do is give a little mirror and wish you success...

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