Teres vs VPI, SME, Origin Live, etc.

SirSpeedy,
Thanks for the idea of soldering all my connections. It would probably sound better, as Raul confirmed. This of course supports the concept that a single tonearm wire has a sonic advantage over a broken one. It seems we agree on that.

Of course it's up to each of us to decide where and how far to take this principle. Raul makes soldering seem like quite a hassle however, and I'm sure it is. I'll hold off for now, but thanks for the suggestion.

Sorry your friend didn't like the SST. I haven't tried it. I have read literature from a similar product and the theory behind it is a mixture of good and silly. Considering the obvious risks and the undeniable hassle of trying to remove it I'm 100% with you - holding off.

***
The sort of analysis Twl just performed for the Acoustic Signature Final Tool is similar to one I did - mentally - when a dealer asked me if I'd like to compare another table with my Teres. This other table lists for over $11K. But when I compared them "on paper" it appeared to have trouble even matching the qualities of my $4K model 265.

The performance is the thing of course. I passed on the audition but I spent a lot of hours with that other table when the dealer asked me and some friends to help set one up and break it in for a customer. Comparing tables in different systems is dangerous of course, but my friends and I all came away unanimously convinced that this $11K table is simply uncompetitive.

IOW, my theoretical comparison was proved correct by a hands-on evaluation: nothing about that table was superior, many things about it were demonstrably inferior.

Yes, I'm a "fan" of Teres. I'm a fan of any product that offers engineering, materials, construction and performance that exceed what's generally available for the price. The Teres models at least up to the 265 provide remarkable performance at their respective price points. Their component quality equals or betters tables selling for 2-3X the price. No one needs to apologize for appreciating genuine value. I will always be a fan of that.

Doug

Have any of you Teres owners done a/b comparisons with Galibier or Redpoint? I'm curious as to what your impressions may have been. I think it's intersting that they evolved out of a common approach and ended in significantly different material choices, but yet retain what appears to me as much of the same philosophy. All the talk of Aluminum vs. wood vs. Brass or combinations thereof just has me interested in what sonic differences I might expect when hearing a few specific tables. There seem to be many fans of each approach and please don't think I want a definitive kind of answer on which is better, but this thread just got me thinking it might be interesting to hear what people have to say about it.

Matt

In most turntables like Teres, Redpoint, Galibier, the materials chosen are the preferences of the designers/owners of the company. These choices are typically made by comparative listening to the TT, using the different things, and choosing what they like the sound of. All these TTs are good, and will vary a bit in sound, due to the variations that each company uses. They have all emerged from one starting point, The Teres Project, so they all have similar roots, and probably have some sonic similarities left, even after materials/design changes.

Regarding the materials chosen and the effects on the sound, it is difficult to determine exactly how a given material will sound, unless you also consider it in conjunction with the rest of the overall design. While I like brass as a material, it is not sufficient to just apply brass "willy nilly" at any location on the TT and expect better results. There must be a reason to use a material in the application and position for it to work out right.

For example, brass, when used in the proper formulation and shapes, can have excellent energy transfer properties. But, you have to have some place for the energy to come from, and someplace for the energy to go, for an energy transfer media to be of use. So, the TT must be engineered with these vibration transfer pathways in mind, or else the material will not function as desired. In the case of hardwood, this material is very good at dispersing energy thoughout its diversely-grained internal structure, and will also tend to transfer some of that energy along the longitudinal grain pattern. This application needs to be carefully considered when using wood in a TT.

Plastics work in a variety of ways, depending upon their formulations.

So, it's necessary to know what your materials can do, and how to apply them to the best effect in the application. There is no way to just say that "brass is better", or "wood is better", unless you can understand how it is being used for its purpose. In some cases, brass may be much worse than another material, if it is not used correctly. Generally, a knowledgeable person can tell by just looking at the way the pieces of a product are constructed and assembled, as to which materials would be productive in the application. In many cases, the product could benefit(or get worse) by changing the shapes and assembly techniques of certain parts, when they use a different material.

It depends on what the designer is trying to achieve with his design. The better he knows what he's doing, the better the result will be. He will use the proper materials and the proper geometries, and the proper assembly methods for his design to be correctly realized.

I didn't really mean to sound like I was coming down so hard on the Final Tool turntable design. I'm sure it is a good sounding turntable.

I simply was trying to point out some reasons of why I like one design over another.

I would jump at the chance to audition one, and I'm sure I would enjoy it. It does have some things that I like in a turntable design.

There was discussion here last year to hold a Teres/Galibier/Redpoint "shootout" at RMAF. That didn't pan out AFAIK, so I'm not sure a direct comparison (same room, same sytem, etc.) has ever been made.