Hello again Lugnut. Once again your response is thought-provoking.
YOU WROTE: “Obviously surfractants, HPLC water and ultrasonic action is too aggressive. Still, I believe even a conventionally applied approach as a first step to remove the mold release compounds followed by an ultrasonic bath using only HPLC water is a sound idea.”
— ABOUT ULTRASONIC. This is actually a rather difficult problem because the cleaning requirements are so fundamentally different: embedded solid particles require mechanical actions, which the ultrasonic machine provides but mold release and even organic contaminants (finger prints, glue and other Unidentified Drying Objects—UDOs?) strongly adhere to the vinyl surface and are surprisingly resistant to ultrasonic action. They require chemical intervention to initially “lift” them off the surface first before ultrasonic can do its work. It is difficult to find a gentler cleaner for Vinyl than surfactant—ammonia, acid, bleach, enzymes are all considerably harsher cleaners. I am looking for a surfactant that provides low surface tension but with a limited ability to solubilize and emulsify. That’s like asking a vampire to only bite but not drink blood. But I still have a few candidates to test if I can find the time.
You WROTE: “A decade or so ago a CFC cleaner was banned from use. I've never used this product but understand it really removed the mold release compounds and nasty fingerprints quite easily. In one of the many audio catalogs I receive and promptly give away there was a reintroduction to an evironmentally friendly replacement product. Are you familiar with this first step? Any reason not to use them?”
— ON CFC CLEANERS. Yes, I am quite familiar with the product. The first one was called…FIRST. As you said, it is a CFC, but it has a longer molecular chain-length than the more familiar Freon. I used many isomers of the trichlorotrifluoroethane from the lab and achieve essentially the same amazing results. They work based on a familiar principle in chemistry: things that are alike prefer to stay together. And Teflon or Silicone mold releases are molecularly similar to CFC and thus easily removed by the latters. I would imagine that if you use a longer-chain CFC, the environmental impact would be dramatically reduced. I am not familiar with the CFC replacement so I can’t be sure what they might do but, if they work like CFCs and if you keep the contact time brief, the plasticizer within the vinyl matrix should be quite safe from these products.
YOU WROTE: “For sure, proper cleaning of records is a very time consuming process and one which takes a lot of experimenting to get right. I honestly believe that many folks just don't take the time to experiment and get it right. I intentionally pulled records I cleaned last month for a repeat play last night just to see if I could hear any traces of dried surfactants you mention. My final rinse with lab grade water must make a difference because all of these examples are as quiet as I've ever heard.”
— ON RINSING. You did the right thing by rinsing your records with distilled water after cleaning. Imagine what would happen to your clothes if you did the laundry without using the rinse cycle! It is such a trivial thing that I am puzzled why so many people do not automatically rinse their records after cleaning.
— A SMALL EXPERIMENT. Are you curious enough to conduct a small experiment? First only dry-brush a brand new record and then play it once. Next, clean the record with a surfactant-based cleaner—no lubricant or preserver please!—and vacuum it thoroughly to remove the excess liquid but skip the rinsing step. Now play the record again immediately. If you used a good RCF, you’d notice that the record is dead quiet, an improvement over the un-cleaned new record. Next store the record for about a month or two (the length depends on the humidity in your house). Finally, play the record again: you’ll hear a very faint background noise that sounds like a dusty record but with ultra-fine dust particles! Don’t worry; you haven’t damaged your record. Just rinse it a couple of times, et voila, the noise will not come back.
YOU WROTE: “I'm surprised that there haven't been more posts to this thread. Mind sharing how many hits it's gotten?”
— HITS OR MISSHITS? So far, this thread has 288 hits. My previous RCF thread, a long primer—an oxymoron?—received 1188 hits and 33 responses. I can only guess the reasons why threads like mine have relatively few hits. First, my threads are much longer than the average threads which immediately puts many people off and even angered a few. Second, I tend to present or discuss basic concepts in the hope that people will use the knowledge to make their own decisions in specific situations. Apparently, this is not a very popular approach—people prefer instant gratifications and quick fixes. My approach may even appear condescending to some people. Finally, Chemistry is a notoriously unpopular topic with audiophiles who much prefer talking about mechanical or electronic issues perhaps because many have those backgrounds. But that’s all just wild guesses. Perhaps my verbosity and pontification put people to sleep. For this, I am amused and strangely unrepentant.
YOU WROTE: “Obviously surfractants, HPLC water and ultrasonic action is too aggressive. Still, I believe even a conventionally applied approach as a first step to remove the mold release compounds followed by an ultrasonic bath using only HPLC water is a sound idea.”
— ABOUT ULTRASONIC. This is actually a rather difficult problem because the cleaning requirements are so fundamentally different: embedded solid particles require mechanical actions, which the ultrasonic machine provides but mold release and even organic contaminants (finger prints, glue and other Unidentified Drying Objects—UDOs?) strongly adhere to the vinyl surface and are surprisingly resistant to ultrasonic action. They require chemical intervention to initially “lift” them off the surface first before ultrasonic can do its work. It is difficult to find a gentler cleaner for Vinyl than surfactant—ammonia, acid, bleach, enzymes are all considerably harsher cleaners. I am looking for a surfactant that provides low surface tension but with a limited ability to solubilize and emulsify. That’s like asking a vampire to only bite but not drink blood. But I still have a few candidates to test if I can find the time.
You WROTE: “A decade or so ago a CFC cleaner was banned from use. I've never used this product but understand it really removed the mold release compounds and nasty fingerprints quite easily. In one of the many audio catalogs I receive and promptly give away there was a reintroduction to an evironmentally friendly replacement product. Are you familiar with this first step? Any reason not to use them?”
— ON CFC CLEANERS. Yes, I am quite familiar with the product. The first one was called…FIRST. As you said, it is a CFC, but it has a longer molecular chain-length than the more familiar Freon. I used many isomers of the trichlorotrifluoroethane from the lab and achieve essentially the same amazing results. They work based on a familiar principle in chemistry: things that are alike prefer to stay together. And Teflon or Silicone mold releases are molecularly similar to CFC and thus easily removed by the latters. I would imagine that if you use a longer-chain CFC, the environmental impact would be dramatically reduced. I am not familiar with the CFC replacement so I can’t be sure what they might do but, if they work like CFCs and if you keep the contact time brief, the plasticizer within the vinyl matrix should be quite safe from these products.
YOU WROTE: “For sure, proper cleaning of records is a very time consuming process and one which takes a lot of experimenting to get right. I honestly believe that many folks just don't take the time to experiment and get it right. I intentionally pulled records I cleaned last month for a repeat play last night just to see if I could hear any traces of dried surfactants you mention. My final rinse with lab grade water must make a difference because all of these examples are as quiet as I've ever heard.”
— ON RINSING. You did the right thing by rinsing your records with distilled water after cleaning. Imagine what would happen to your clothes if you did the laundry without using the rinse cycle! It is such a trivial thing that I am puzzled why so many people do not automatically rinse their records after cleaning.
— A SMALL EXPERIMENT. Are you curious enough to conduct a small experiment? First only dry-brush a brand new record and then play it once. Next, clean the record with a surfactant-based cleaner—no lubricant or preserver please!—and vacuum it thoroughly to remove the excess liquid but skip the rinsing step. Now play the record again immediately. If you used a good RCF, you’d notice that the record is dead quiet, an improvement over the un-cleaned new record. Next store the record for about a month or two (the length depends on the humidity in your house). Finally, play the record again: you’ll hear a very faint background noise that sounds like a dusty record but with ultra-fine dust particles! Don’t worry; you haven’t damaged your record. Just rinse it a couple of times, et voila, the noise will not come back.
YOU WROTE: “I'm surprised that there haven't been more posts to this thread. Mind sharing how many hits it's gotten?”
— HITS OR MISSHITS? So far, this thread has 288 hits. My previous RCF thread, a long primer—an oxymoron?—received 1188 hits and 33 responses. I can only guess the reasons why threads like mine have relatively few hits. First, my threads are much longer than the average threads which immediately puts many people off and even angered a few. Second, I tend to present or discuss basic concepts in the hope that people will use the knowledge to make their own decisions in specific situations. Apparently, this is not a very popular approach—people prefer instant gratifications and quick fixes. My approach may even appear condescending to some people. Finally, Chemistry is a notoriously unpopular topic with audiophiles who much prefer talking about mechanical or electronic issues perhaps because many have those backgrounds. But that’s all just wild guesses. Perhaps my verbosity and pontification put people to sleep. For this, I am amused and strangely unrepentant.