Linn LP12......That good??

Cleopatra52:
If you find some use in Salvatore's site, fine. But really I don’t see him as someone to be taken seriously - he is just some guy with a blog, a crusty temperament, and no small amount of a persecution complex.

He fits a very recognizable type in audio. The audio professional who has passionate opinions based on highly personal taste (in some cases opinions that are also informed greatly by personal, competitive grudges developed over years in the business) who then sets himself up as some kind of High Priest of Audio Truth. If you have been around even a short while you have run into many of these people, and low and behold, you can find equal passion in equally experienced people representing nearly diametrically opposed views.

Ultimately, you have to trust your own ears, and the ears of people who earn your trust by sharing your tastes - and by acting like reasonable, rational beings. If you have done legitimate comparisons of other tables with an LP 12 and found other tables you like better, fine. I am happy for you. But you do your views little credit by in any way linking them to those of Salvadore. Salvadore’s comments on the LP 12 are dripping with what appear to be best described as his personal issues. He is so wildly unfair in his statements about the LP 12, one concludes he is either simply ignorant or passionate beyond rationality on the subject. For instance, he dismisses the dramatic improvements in the LP 12 with sarcastic reference to “upgrades” upon which no one should waste money. He refers to the LP 12 as essentially nothing more than a successful marketing scam. I could go on. I honestly can’t make any sense of where the man is coming from other than it be from some sort deep set of personal issues (bad competitive experiences as a dealer, I don’t know what). Or, to be as charitable as I can be, perhaps it all stems from passionate personal beliefs about what “the right” sort of turntable design should be. (Of course, abstract design opinions and sonic experience with a real product – i.e. the modern, full spec LP 12, are very different things.)

Again, if you have some use for the man, fine. But you greatly weaken the seriousness of your opinion about the LP 12 when you reference this sort of guy to buttress it.

Here's a catch.......Currently using a Grado Red and have a Shure V 15 III, just bought a nice pre amp last week with a phono stage capable of any cartridge.
So how about i step up to a MC cartridge, well i more bang for the buck doing that rather then replacing decks?
The pre is a Krell KSP-7B......still need a better amp then my Bryston 4B though.

I don't know why this TT still gets flooded with politically-intense discussions. I too owned the LP-12 for 18 years. I had not one problem with it nor the Ittok during that time. Now that says a lot about a product.

A year or so after I got my Linn LP-12, I went to another Linn dealer who was also a Goldmund dealer. They had both TT's set up and the salesman was very friendly to give me the time to hear the two back to back. The Goldmund Studio was simply in another league in terms of musicality. It was absolutely wonderful. But still, the Linn played the music mighty fine and I was still a happy camper with the Linn for many many years.

Many years later when I brought home a Clearaudio Ref TT, it took no time at all to immediately hear the low-end extension come out of LPs like I had not heard in my home before. And there was a definite difference in tonality in the context of piano and vocals with the Clearaudio clearly bringing on more definition and clarity. It reminded me so much of the Goldmund comparison. I do not know if this is the table or arm differences or both, but still the Linn did quite well compared to the much more expensive Clearaudio. Still, the Linn's shortcomings were quickly heard again.

I did not hear the Lingo but come on guys, be serious, was the Linn's Valhalla motor circuit the entire reason for the Linn's mediocre bass performance? I doubt this very much.

Continuing on with the issue of credibility, I think the biggest fault that many Linn fanatics have is constantly blaming those who prefer other TT's over the Linn because the Linn they heard was incorrectly set up. Give me a break - this excuse gets old. The Linn documentation to do this is excellent and with patience it is very straight forward to correctly set the springs, the arm cable dressing, the arm board level, etc. My Linn dealer went through this process very thoroughly with me and I kept it in tip-top form throughout. And surely the Linn/Goldmund dealer did too. But my ears made it very clear that the Linn was a good turntable/arm....it was simply not great.

John

Newmanoc,
Obviously, my comment about Salvatore has struck a nerve. I am certain that his critism of the Linn has made many people quite upset. But I do not have a blog, I have never been called "crusty" (at least not to my face) and I certainly do not have a persecution complex. However, I have had a lot of experience with many turntables over the past 30 years and I essentially agree with Salvatore's position on the Linn. I have also had many friends over the years who have used Linns and some that still do. I am sure that, even those that have moved on to better tables, would never lament their years with the Linn; however, I am equally certain none would want to go back to the Linn having experienced superior sound from more modern designs. On the subject of marketing: Linn wrote the book on marketing in the high end audio and, like all very successful marketing schemes, there is a considerable amount of hype and exageration (even untruths) in statements made.

Ok Newmanoc, We get your take on Salvatore's somewhat eccentric ruminations. Frankly it's easy to criticize others for their opinions/experience and quite another thing to risk putting your own thoughts out for the same for mentioned scrutiny. This is meant only in a friendly nature and I have little interest in confrontation for it's sake alone but, where are you at on the thread topic "Linn LP12......That good??"? I found Cleopatra52's post to offer an opinion based in sound experience and the fact that this A'gon member mentioned Salvatore's site as a point of reference I see as no huge crime. In fact, I find a number of points on which Arthur Salvatore hits the nail on the head. Anyway, I believe it would add to your credibility and help X1884 and the rest of us to offer your options/experience to this thread.