Well, considering the Denon is part of this discussion, I think I'll jump in! You wrote "I heard the same set up with a Audio research ph1 phono stage and to my memory the sound was thicker and more real." Sounds to me like you like the tube sound, and so this is the thing lacking that you seek. I don't agree that the Denon can be bettered for greater $$$, there are things it does - drive, mid-bass, tonal balance, musicality/gestalt/PRaT - which it does better than any other MC, regardless of price, which is why it has Classic status, it's not just a matter of value for money but of unbeatable strengths (sorry Raul ;-)). Yes it can be bettered in terms of frequency extension and detail (where it is still surprisingly good, however), but these are more in the way of unnecessary extras rather than substance, musically-speaking. I don't think you are stupid at all to be in love with the Denon, this is how if affects many: it appeals to the heart first, like a transducer of music should (not that it is a slouch at the usual audiophile characteristics). Start listening to various tubed phono preamps, and don't listen to those who advise you to abandon the Denon.