How to properly set VTF??

Dear friends: For any newcomer to analog and after read all those ( very interesting ) posts about VTF/AS/0.001/VTA issue any one of them would withdraw before to star on analog: very complicated.

Why don't just enjoy the music?

This VTF/VTA/etc/etc can't be perfect or near it. There are many parameters that preclude that:

- we need to know the right load impedance where the cartridge has flat frequency.

- we need to know the right VTF where the coils are precise centered.

- we need to know the right VTA where the frequency is flat and of course with the right VTF and Azimuth.

- what we " meausure/hear " today, tomorrow could be different for the same setup because: suspension changes ( for the use ), stylus wear, record wear, tube wear, etc, etc.

- every record is different and is cutted different and with different thickness.

- all records are concave, so the VTF/VTA change along rhe record ( some of you setup the VTF/VTA-SRA every single record, but this is not enough you have to change in every single track!!! ).

- our ear perception changes every single day: different mood, auditive loss, etc, etc.

- if today we do our analog setup with two other friends in the audio room and tomorrow we do the same with out any of them, the sound reproduction that we hear will be different because we have two less " audio traps " in the audio room.

- etc

- etc!!!!!!!!!

All of you are experienced audio people why don't do an " average " setup and use all the remaining time enjoying the music?

Don't be nuts, you are trying to be perfect on an imperfect medium: you can't have success.

Now, we have severe frequency deviations all over the audio system, at least: 1-2 db on cartridges, 1-2 db on phono stages, 5-10 db on tubes and SUTs, 5-10 db on speaker/room, 5-10 db on tube amplifiers, 1 db on SS amplifiers, 5-10 db on our ears, etc, etc.
If we want a better music/sound quality reproduction ( because is what I think we all wanted ) we have to " touch " every single link on the audio chain to a minimum frequency deviations, then the VTF/VTA-SRA issue means something to be nuts, not before.

wELL, AS i TOLD YOU: WHY DON'T JUST ENJOY THE MUSIC?

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Raul, I think that is what I have been trying to say - set the VTF (0.1g accuracy is enough) at any position on the record and then enjoy the music after doing a further adjustment by ear.
Your description of all of the other parameters that might affect the listening experience is also a reason not to go vinyl.
With respect, Bob P.

Hi Raul, you and Bob are right, of course. We should all just relax and enjoy. However, some of us are not new to analog and want to investigate, experiment with this stuff. Far and away the music is the most important thing. If some of us do find a method of setting one of the parameters of a given piece of equipment that yields a better or more consistent result it will have been worth it. Much like experimenting with different types and levels of dampening fluid on some arms.

Anyway, it is all meant to be in taken in good spirits.

Enjoy!

Dear Dan ed: +++++ " However, some of us are not new to analog and want to investigate, experiment with this stuff. " +++++

Yes, I understand this: is part of the " movie ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I'm a bit surprised with you,Raul.I certainly agree with this current point,of yours(and understand Bob's as well).Yet it has always been you,who have been very techno oriented about getting the best results!Now you seem to have a "glossed over" approach,and emphasize "just enjoy the music"!What gives?Have you finally gone over to digital?
Nothing wrong there,btw.I have a nice CD player that's in use,now,as my COSMOS gets two of Sota's latest mods.

Believe me I DO get what you,and Bob are saying,and most of my own arm/cart voicings are set by ear,but I STILL check ultimate downforce,for a benchmark,after all is set.It gives a fairly reliable reference for set-up,which though not "absolute" is still better than not knowing,and only relying on ones ears.When it is only us,who basically only listen to our systems,if it goes off just a bit,it is hard to clearly identify when this happens.Since we get used to our particular sound.Usually a pal comes over,and mentions,to me,that I may want to recheck something.This is where a critical parameter like downforce can be simplified,after some prior work has been done.VTA stays locked,as well as damping fluid.I doubt my coils/cantilever "sag" as I believe you state,as my cartridge is fairly new.Also I have a dedicated room,with controlled humidity/temp.Fairly consistent parameters.Why would anyone not want a consistent downforce reading?I'm perplexed!

I find it hard to believe that all the mumbo jumbo with other factors is more pertinent than having a really good starting point.Assuming one has played around a bit,with a good variety of discs.What doesn't make sense here?Even Harry Pearson recommends the Winds guage,as do numerous people I know.I have finally had extensive experience with one,and now think it's indispensable.

I mean let's all take a look at our analog investment---Tables(big bucks)-arms(fairly big bucks-to the stratosphere)-cartridges(pricey,expensive)-even arm cable isn't cheap(if it's a seperate entity)!So to recommend an accurate digital guage for a few hundred bucks is to be "blown off" is silly,to me.

I get the impression that those who don't ascribe to this have either not really extensively utilized the better digital guages,and found how effective they can be.Or,Don't really want to bother,or have invested in something like the Shure,or older,and "once classic" Technics guage.Here some rationalization may have set in.

Believe me,I'm NOT trying to insinuate my feelings on this subject,as I regretably have in some past posts.My only criteria is to, maybe, relate how an important set-up parameter can be made easy,and repeatable!I'll say no more,after this.

It happens to be a very viable subject,and one that has made itself surprisingly impactful,to quite a few of my own friends,as well as me.I would LOVE to find a reason for keeping my own guage,but accuracy to 50/100's doesn't seem to be up to snuff in my own set-up.I hate the thought of spending anymore!

Please understand that this is only our opinion,in our systems.Nothing is set in stone.This is certainly not my old rants in defense of the "not perfect by a long shot" 2.2!I'm only relating input from extensive sessions that took place at some friends' homes.Others have their own way of doing things,and I'm fine with that.

As for the pricey Winds guage--I want one,but that cute newbie guage shown on Audiogon,that reads to four digits really has to be considered.Not that anything beyond 1/100 interests me.Who knows?I certainly don't!

Best regards!