Carts that sound like a Koetsu

Doug, have you ever considered that it could be that the Koetsu sound does not match your system and therefore you do not like it? IMO the B&W speakers tend to have a boxy coloration which enhances the mid-bass, the exact freqs which the Koetsu also has some emphasis. The ZYX would therefore provide a better balance in your system. OTOH, Greg ML panel speakers do not have the box and are fast, thus the Koetsu would give his system better balance. IMO its really a case of system matching and tastes.

Gregadd,

What can I say other than the old YMMV? We have heard rounded transients from multiple models in multiple systems. You haven't heard that. Music is mysterious. ;-)

It was wrong of me to ascribe that, or an enjoyment of it, to anyone else however. My apologies.

FWIW, "intolerable" was an accurate description of our reactions. I understand you may react differently.

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Cmk,

As already stated, we've heard this artifact from several models, on several arms, in several systems using several speakers. There is no reason to suspect it has anything to do with our system or our speakers. It may indeed have everything to do with our ears.

Doug

Dear Doug: If I can remember you don't try the KRSP ( I'm not sure, too, that was the KRSP but the KRS ) in your own system.

There are some sujects about the right set-up for a Koetsu RSP:

it is a low output cartridge: 0.2mv, this means that there are not a single tube Phonolinepreamp that can handle with out step-up transformer in a decent way ( no noise/distortions ), here we need SS or hybrid technology.
If I can remember you hear it through step-up transformers and with " equalizers ". This point is very critical because if the amplifiers are changing the frequency response level then you are not hearing the KRSP: you are hearing an " intolerable " sound that comes from the audio systems other than the KRSP.

now, the Koetsus are not very friendly to match well with tonearm, as a fact I put on sale ( only for two days and retire the ad. ) my KRSP because it don't meet my music sound reproduction priorities: MUSIC, I try in almost all my tonearms till I mounted in the GST-801 and I stop the sale. I found that with this tonearm I have the best match and obvious the best KRSP quality performance.
From here I " play " with load impedance because 47K is ( at least from my expierences ) a wrong one and I found that between 1-5K things were right on target.

Other subject is VTA/SRA: this cartridge is really sensitive to minute VTA/SRA changes and it likes a positive angle.

The KRSP is a great cartridge ( I preffer over the OSP ) it is a matter of patience and know how.

Today I use it through an active high gain Phonolinepreamp: Essential 3150.

Cmk: Till I hear the B&W 802D I had the same opinion about the bass performance in the B&W speakers, you have to hear it: great ones.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Raul,

I've heard the Urushi, the RSP and the Onyx Platinum, but not the RS.

When I had the RSP in my system I did use stepups, but Cello's two phono stages and my new one all use SS for the primary gain stage. The sonic character we've heard cannot be attributed to an SUT, nor to any particular phono stage.

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the Koetsus are not very friendly to match well with tonearm

I believe you. Many months ago you said you'd finally found one tonearm that works with your RSP, but I think this is the first time you've named it. Is the GST-801 a very high mass arm? I would expect that to work best.

BTW, a correspondent of Arthur Salvatore really likes his GST-801 + XV-1S. You should try your XV-1S on that arm if you haven't already done so.

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Raul or Cmk,
Do you remember what amp you heard driving B&W's that had boxy or impaired bass? I ask because we had that problem until we got our present amp, power cords and speaker cables. There are few amps in the world which compare with this one for driving these speakers, including the Classe amps B&W uses to voice them. In a direct A/B this amp sent a pair of Classe monoblocks home. It takes more than great speakers to make great speakers. ;-)

Doug

P.S. I'd love a set of 803D's with the simpler Xover, diamond tweeter and the new, lighter/stiffer woofer cones. Some day...

Doug/Raul
I heard the B&W802 nautilus driven by Pass Labs monoblocks. IMO no doubt they are clean sounding, but it cannot completely remove the box sound, typically a slight hump in the 80-120hz range. I must emphasize it was marginal, and shows up as a blurring of the sonic image.

I am already used to hearing my music from a point source and with speed/dynamics through the Cabasse Baltics. Panel speakers will also give this sort of box free sound.

Anyway, coming back to the main topic, I'm currently fiddling with the Conductor arm and the AT33PTG cart(which leans to the detailed/analytical side). What I get is very clean sound, huge soundstage and every bit of detail on the LP, including bad mixes and errors of the pressing. I maybe insane, on some recordings, the images just sound like cardboard cut outs, but on some good recordings, its produces amazing full bodied sound. In times like this, I sometimes would prefer a more forgiving cart like the Denon 103R or a Koetsu.

I'll play a bit more with the AT cart and give it a bit more time before switching over to the Denon and see how things work out.