2. analog
  3. 1151458982

My digital front end outdoes my analog.....

For the first time ever my analog setup is being outdone by my digital front end. The equipment: digital-MF Trivista SACD
analog-Thorens TD-125 w/Rabco SL8E linear tracking arm/Grado Master reference (4.0mv) YS Audio Concerto plus with Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7's. The sound: Overall fairly similar with that usual superior analog HF response. The image and seperation are way better on the CDP, this is my biggest issue. Better, but less so, are bass response and dynamics on the CDP as well. I love vinyl and always have and will. The tonearm is set up great and the thing tracks perfect. VTA perfect. I have it only two feet from the left speaker and it doesn't even think of feeding back. I can jump on the floor and the woofers don't move so it is so well isolated. The table/arm seem fine. Here are problems I see:
1)Lower end phono pre (so what do I need to spend)
2)Rewire TT from cart to interconnect as the tonearm is 30 years old
3)As a passive line stage user I need a very low Z ballsier phono stage. The current unit is 54db gain with an output impedence of 1000 ohms. The Trivista CDP's output impedence is 50 ohms (this could be the bass issue since I use a passive linestage)

Vinyl will never have the place for me it once did since so few new releases are on LP. I have most of the vinyl and out of print vinyl not on or never released on CD that I desire to own (based on what I like)
I do love playing with vinyl and shopping and finding it as well. Thoughts welcome-thanks in advance

ET
electroid
dan_ed
2,451 posts
 
'troid, I do understand you're position. I just think your thread title doesn't accurately describe your situation. I still think for the ~$3K investment you have made in SACD that you can better/equal it. But I don't think it is worth futzing with the table/arm/cart (as a combo) that you have now. The passive pre you have chosen could be an impediment to a better analog front end, but I'll admit to a biased thinking here. I understand passive as a better solution for digital sources. I'll also admit that I don't have extensive hands-on exerience with passive and digital. It just seems that you've chosen a solution that works pretty well for digital but that may work against getting enjoyment from analog. Hopefully, someone with more experience in this area will chime in.

I am in agreement with trying to keep up with new releases and the available formats. Again, this is a different issue than what the thread title would have the reader believe. Myself, I would look to CD first and then DVD-A. I have heard some very good SACD but nothing that improves on redbook to even the slightest degree.

You're asking how can I still love vinyl because I can't get all new releases in that format. No disrespect, but to even ask that question proves you don't appreciate that which is available now on vinyl, even used vinyl. If this is the point you're after then I accuse you of falsely stating your premise for this thread. For example, I could ask you how can you genuinely love SACD since there is so much beautiful music available not that format?
electroid OP
283 posts
 
I don't care much for SACD and have only 15-20 discs. Don't get me wrong it does sound better than the same title on redbook its just that so little of it appeals to me titlewise. I bought the player for its superior redbook playback. My favorite sonding recordings on CD have a top ten where there are only 2 SACD's. I prefer good/creative engineering to slighlty better fidelity anyday. I tried the buy some of the same releases I have in vinyl/redbook etc. on SACD, Mostly a waste IMO, Kind of Blue is still best on vinyl by a mile to my ears. I got a rec for a phono pre with appropriate gain but its a $500 pre. I have always auditioned gear before buying and will start that soon. I do want to improve my vinyl playback, especially image/soundstage.....this is why I started the post. Thanks for your input!

ET
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
I do want to improve my vinyl playback, especially image/soundstage.....this is why I started the post.
Matching or beating CD for imaging, soundstaging (and bass) is possible. This is true whether your CDP cost $1K, $5K or even $15K.

As has been posted already, starting with Nsgarch, your TT, arm and cartridge are inadequate to meet these goals. No phono stage in the world will change this. Even new, the TD125 was not one of Thorens best tables. The SL8E was nobody's idea of a great arm (I owned two of them, and still own an ST-8). I could name a hundred modern cartridges that will image and soundstage better than any Grado.

I prefer good/creative engineering to slighlty better fidelity anyday.
A lot of good, creative engineering has been applied to LP playback components since yours were designed. The result is not "slightly" better fidelity, it is massively better fidelity.

Visit someone with a decent high end rig of recent manufacture. Assuming proper component matching and setup, what you will hear is a level of performance that no amount of tweaking, wire upgrading or phono stage matching will ever pull from your existing rig.

You do have some difficult decisions to make. Hopefully you won't make too many wrong turns as you try to find a path that works for you.
nsgarch's avatar
nsgarch
2,524 posts
 
Doug, thanks for playing the "heavy" this time ;-)

N

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psychicanimal
1,738 posts
 
It has to have a ton of gain as I will not every use an active linestage again(famous last words)

My 100% solid state system uses a CI Audio passive, CI Audio DAC and Monolithic Sound PS-1 phono stage. No more active line stage pre's for me either. However, I use very short runs specialty naturally insulated silver cabling. A Dan Wright modded Marchand X9 Deluxe electronic x-over serves as a source of constant output impedance for the power amps and to counteract any other of the passive's inherent weaknesses.

Like Doug told you, I also suggest you start listening to really good vinyl rigs. You are thinking too much...

From a 1200 modder,
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