Can I clean my records manually?

TBG: While I would agree with you that the Loricraft and Monks offer superior cleaning due to a) their basic design which concentrates the power of the vacuum in a very small area and b) the quality of the industrial vac motors in those units, I am not so sure that other arm/wand based cleaners like the VPI & Clearaudio or slot based systems like the Nitty Gritty with their relatively cheesey motors will offer any better cleaning in terms of their vacuum/lift than Pawlowski is getting. A quality shop vac or even a high quality dry vac used in conjunction with something like the KAB EV1 is going to give you much better "lift" than virtually any of the non Loricraft/Monks machines currently on the market. It just makes sense: take a look at the motors utilized in those machines versus the ones used and the suction realized in a shop vac or high quality domestic dry vac.

I would also agree with you that the choice and quality of fluids is critical. The fluid has to loosen and suspend the dirt so it can be vacuumed away as well as leaving no sonic signature. To underestimate its importance is foolhardy. Like Pawlowski, I am a fan of the RRL fluids. Apart from spending a huge amount of money (it's huge to me anyway) on the Loricraft, I think Pawlowski is on the right track, although I should point out that RRL does not advocate "scrubbing" but simply using a carbon fibre brush to get the solution down into the groove so it can do its job.

Hdm, I guess the real question is whether a small fan operating with a very small orifice has more vacuum than a large fan with a large orifice. As I said, I doubt any of us has the information to know what to tell him as to why a quality record cleaner might outperform his method. He should be happy with his technique until he has the opportunity to hear the benefits of a better system. I don't like his attitude that he is waiting.

You may not like his attitude, but $2,000 or so for a Loricraft is a lot of money for many people. It buys some substantial equipment upgrades and/or significant amounts of software, particularly if it's used vinyl at 50 cents to a couple of bucks a pop.

As someone who has had records cleaned on a Monks and who now cleans records with a quality home vac, RRL and a KAB EV1 (total cleaning equipment outlay about $240 U.S. including brushes), I can tell you that I don't feel compelled to spring for the Loricraft or a Monks and I had a chance to buy an older Monks recently at a very good price. As good as it may be, I don't consider it to be good value for money in the overall scheme of things with respect to my system and my enjoyment of the music and I could buy the Loricraft if I wanted to. I can respect the fact that you own it and like it, but for many audiophiles those machines represent an outrageous outlay of cash.

Depending on what your objectives are and what your current cleaning techniques are, the Loricraft/Monks route may not be appropriate. I don't think decent quality alternate methods should be denigrated and I have no doubt that Pawlowski may be obtaining very good results with the method he's using (even compared to Loricraft/Monks) based on my experience. Personally, I think you can obtain 75-80% or more of the effectiveness of the Monks (it costs, I believe, about $3-$4K new) for about $250, maybe less, if you are smart about it. I think Pawlowski's approach is probably yielding pretty good results.

Pawlowski6132 suggested he is 'still waiting'.

Waiting for what? If the record cleaning method you adopt cleans your vinyl sufficent to reduce surface noise in your system to your satisfaction it does not matter what method you use. (as long as it is not destructive)

On the other hand if you are not satisfied you need to try something else.

Manual washing was good but I found use of a VPI machine gave better results for me. No microscope, just listening. Ditto 'home brew' solutions. OK result, great cost (low) but outperformed by the RRL solutions.

When I started listening with the ELP (laser player) what was formerly good enough didn't cut it. I had to do better. Enter the Loricraft. I did not need a microscope to hear less noise. The records were visually, and more importantly, audibly cleaner (however it takes longer to clean a record compared to the VPI).

As I continue to use the laser I find that a single solution is not enough. RRL works great. Cleaning with RRL and then following with L'art du Son works better- for some records. At times an enzyme step also helps, particularly with older dirty records as might be expected. If there is a lot of surface noise due to physical damage I reach for the Klymas.

What one needs to clean vinyl is record dependent (condition of the vinyl), system dependent (some stylus/arms are more forgiving than others; the laser is very intolerant of dirt) and of course user dependent: some of use don't mind some surface noise, others want CD like silence.

Bottom line: this is not a question with a simple, one size fits all answer. For many the nitty gritty with a basic home brew solution will be all that is needed. For others more will be required.

However, IMHO the better RCMs do a better job cleaning vinyl. Pawlowski6132 I could wave my hands and cite a zillion reasons why this might be so but at the end of the day it comes down to how the records sound. And my experience is they sound better with the VPI compaired to my manual cleaning efforts, and even better with the loricraft compaired to the VPI.

I also find that some of the commercial cleaning solutions really do offer value beyond diy solutions. I've heard people refute this and all I can say is if you get good enough results with a diy solution lucky you.

But if you find that you need more, try some. If you don't, forget it and enjoy the music. (As well as the trains, cannon shots, airplanes etc. Yes, I am an unrepentant unashamed audiophile)

And if anyone has any reasonable methods to improve vinyl play back I'll take a listen!

Demagnitisation anyone? : )

The Loricraft and Monk do not offer superior cleaning. A manual machine such as the Record Doctor, good fluids, good brushes, and some elbow grease will get your records just as clean. It takes longer and requires a bit of work but I guarantee my records are just as clean as anything cleaned by the megabuck machines. I've also purchased many pieces of vinyl with the money saved.