If boulder is tops what is second tier?

Albert…that is an interesting comment coming from Boulder’s designer. What is even more interesting to me is that Boulder is not the only high-end amplifier manufacturer who has made this comment or one similar to it in private to me or to others whom I know in this hobby. It is little wonder that there is so much controversy when it comes to cable. I don’t think there are too many of these engineers who do not acknowledge that properly designed audio cables are important in an audio system, but they are all too aware of the fact that good cable is readily available and inexpensive except in high-end audio where it has been cleverly masked behind beautiful cosmetics and very slick marketing that often generates profit margins in excess of 1000% or even 3000%. Generally speaking it seems that amplifier manufactures tend to stay out of these arguments.

There is a clear ‘carriage trade’ that has developed over the years in high-end audio and the Boulder phono preamp fills this market nicely, as do Wilson loudspeakers and numerous other products we are all familiar with. Of course the audio rags always say this is stuff is the best, especially the ones that receive huge advertising revenue from such manufactures, but as many of us have discovered it just isn’t always true. And as I think most of us know there are those who will only buy the most expensive equipment with the highest status and ‘perceived’ excellence. Many high-end manufactures take advantage of this quirk of human nature and price their product accordingly.

That said, I have no personal experience with the Boulder phono preamp. Maybe it really is excellent. But could it possibly be worth $30K, and cost anywhere near that to manufacture, or is more like that $100 pair of interconnects that retails for $3000? And by its cost alone does it earn its rank of A++? I think not on both accounts. Unfortunately it is difficult not to equate higher performance with higher cost because that is they way we have been taught (manipulated) to think.

Whatever the case, I did want to add one more phono preamp to the discussion that I believe falls into this category, even though at $3250 its price is not as extreme as some of the others mentioned. That is the Herron Audio VTPH-1 MC Plus. While Keith Herron’s preamps have garnered their fair share of rave reviews over the years, Herron does not throw a lot of money into advertising (or Rowlandesque cosmetics) and perhaps for that reason they seem to fly a bit under the radar. None-the-less the VTPH-1 is worthy of any serious analog audiophile’s consideration and will compete favorably with some of the products mentioned here.

Dear Peter: " +++++ My price range would top out at about $3k. " +++++

It is out of my sense to understand the tittle of your thread: "If boulder is tops what is second tier? ", when your budget is 3K. The very best phonolinepreamps are between 15K to 50K.

You posted: " but I feel that this is probably the most important part of the chain in our systems! " and latter: " I would like to make this a lasting purchase. "

If like you say ( I agree ) the phonolinepreamp is the most important part of the chain and you are looking for the last purchase about then you must to have a wider budget and if you don't have it a this time my advise is that you wait a little till you have a serious money for a serious phonolinepreamp.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

All of your opinions on phono stages are valid, I posted my comments because regardless of the phono stage chosen, cables play a big role in the total performance package and should not be ignored.

Does anyone really think the Boulder phono would work just as well with the blister pack RCA's provided with a $149.00 DVD player? Can you imagine a Koetsu, Benz, ZYX, Denon or any other high end, low output moving coil cartridge passing through China blister pack cables from your turntable to the Boulder phono stage ?

Anyway I thought the designers comment, which was made with a sneer and in anger, was totally vulgar especially coming from high end company that charges what it does for their equipment.

As for performance differences between these various phono stages, I have not heard the DarTZeel that Mike enjoys. I do agree the Lamm and Steelhead are great products, I have auditioned both of them and prefer either over the Boulder.

That being said, the latest version Aesthetix IO Signature with dual power supplies and all NOS tubes is magic in my system and in the end each of us must choose what works with the rest of the equipment that makes up our system.

To further clarify the EXACT situation that occurred at CES and caused the blanket comment from Boulder, I walked into a room displaying Sound-Lab A-1 (their top line) speaker fed with Boulder electronics. I noticed that the left Sound-Lab speaker was plugged into the electric razor outlet leading from a table lamp, which was wired with 18 gauge lamp cord.

I ask Boulder (who was answering questions for all the equipment in the room at that moment) if I might check into borrowing cables from Purist, Cardas or another nearby cable exhibitor that would reach the (existing unused) wall socket with a grounded connection (NECESSARY!) for the 20K bias of the Sound-Lab speakers being displayed.

THIS is when I got the snide remark. All I can say is even if the lamp cord, table lamp, and lack of ground was not at issue, respect for the fellow your displaying with would require at least a stock 16 gauge Belden for this type of high end set up.

Over many years I've experimented with many aftermarket AC cables with Sound-Lab speakers and can promise you there ARE sonic gains to be had with premium AC cords.

Anyway, good luck Pedrillo in your search regardless of what you decide.

hahaha $30k for a phono preamp, irregardless of how good it sounds, its silly money.

There are plenty of good phono stages around with the resurgence of vinyl. I suppose this thread took a turn with the mention of Boulder, which actually isn't what the threadstarter was looking for, so really, I don't know what all the fuss is about.

Anyway, with the quoted budget, I would agree with Tswhitsel on the Herron. I have never regretted buying one.

Raul sez:

you must to have a wider budget and if you don't have it a this time my advise is that you wait a little till you have a serious money for a serious phono...

I would generally agree; maybe a diy (if you're into that sort of thing) would be an interim and affordable solution for now. Or modding an existing unit --for example people have improved on the EAR.

Speaking of branded finished goods out there, I can mention certain units that were in the "superior" league (i.e. better than a "good phono" that has some magical strengths and a few weaknesses):
*FM acoustics: undoubtedly one of the best I've heard, and very versatile. The "cheap" offering must cost ~10-12k (?). It's "cheaper" because it's single-ended input (not balanced).
*Manley Steelhead; see above
*Clearaudio "reference" s/thing or other -- the one that comes as two mono boxes each with an external PS.
*A Goldmund stand alone from ~8yrs back. It was also included in certain pre's they sold back then (one being the Mimesis 7.1 or s/thing close).

Now, there are many I've heard and do not wish to go into here. There are also many I haven't heard and can mention two here: the latest Aesthetics, for example (see Albert above); the Dartzeel (see Mike, above).

It seems that the only way to have a great phono within financial reason is to diy; but, unless you're ready to research, you need an excellent schematic...
Coming to think of it, try Raul above -- send him a case of wine, maybe it'll work: he has built a good one:)