tubes and analog

In fact the odd-ordered harmonic generation that is a hallmark of transistors is a feature that runs counter to the rules of human hearing. We all hear the same way in this regard, and is not something that we can change.

The odd-ordered harmonic content we are talking about is used the human ear as loudness/harshness cues and occurs in vanishingly small amounts- hard to measure with conventional test equipment. But our ears are very sensitive to this type of distortion- finely tuned you might say.

Tubes do not make this type of distortion. So- in a phono stage, if you *add* this distortion, it will exist in the system right to the loudspeaker. So the phono section is the place where you really want to use tubes.

Dear Jh: +++++ " If you have, however, invented some new circuit topology that does what you claim, then I suggest you patent it immediately. " +++++

We are in this process.

+++++ " This is the difference between a 2A3 SET and your typical SS amplifier " +++++

Maybe the problem is that there is no more ( almost ) that " typical SS " topology. Today almost all preamps goes non-feedback, pure class A and discrete stages. Btw, we are using bipolars.

+++++ " Yes. So is feedback. " +++++

Like I told you almost the rule today are non-feedback designs. I think that you need some update about.

You certainly know every single tube technology limitations: very high output impedance, tubes are a noisy device " per nature ", tubes designs have higher distortions level than SS or hybrids one, tubes have heavy problems to reproduce accurately both frequency extremes specially the low bass where ( beteen other things ) does not have control over the woofers like the SS topology, tubes are untrusty: time to time ( very short time ) blow-up, tubes are not performance consistent: almost every single day sound different ( many people don't take in count because every day are in touch with their systems ). Jh you know that we can go on speaking about but this is not the subject: you and me know that there is nothing perfect in tubes or SS electronics.

Jh, the subject is that the " very old myths " about SS designs, fortunately, dissapear. Today we have very good SS designs as we can find good tube designs. The best of all is that today the customers have several choices that in the past don't.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Here are some claims/concerns about the "wonder" product they've been trying to sell in the threads but haven't addressed:

>>Claims to have an unprecedented flat frequency response from 0.01Hz to 1 mHz<<

Well that’s crap as Spectral designs and others go beyond that.

>>Claim of 150 dB common mode rejection<<

More crap. The halves of a differential circuit must be matched within one - thirty millions (the deviation is one unit for thirty million units) - while even "dual" devices, made from a single crystal, are matched within one to a hundred. There is nothing in existence to measure such deviation. For the readership, in tube designs/ matching within one to thirty is common and OK.

>>Claim they match the discrete devices a million times as precisely as the others do.<<

Obviously, this is pure BS and more BS.

>>Claim distortion of 2/10000 (two - ten thousands of a percent - i.e.) the claimed distortion is minus 104 dB.<<

More crap. This is by far impossible to measure with any equipment on the phono level because they would have to have a device with the resolution to picovolts, and such instruments do not exist.
Additionally the claimed distortion figure is over 30 dB below (!) the theoretical noise floor for an MC cartridge, and 5 times as low as the lowest noise floor from any known solid state device in existence.

For any engineer, such ridiculous claims make the design and the designers look anything but real and serious. However, it makes for great promotion which is the issue now correct?

Hmmm, Audiofeil, why don't you ask him to explain it rather than using words like crap, BS, ridiculous, etc. You're posts have been nothing but antagonistic for so long it has become tiresome.

You keep attacking Raul like he's trying to sell his preamp, but I don't see you attacking Ralph when he speaks of the virtues of his products. Is this because you sell Atma's??? Why the hypocrisy???

I love it when manufacturers like Ralph and JCarr and Raul/Jose and Hagerman discuss their designs and thoughts here. There is valuable info to be gained from all of them and I hope they all continue to post so that we can benefit from what they have to say.

Unfortunately, Audiofeil, just like Raul has probably turned off many people with his posts, you have made it clear to at least me, that even in your native language you have a lot to learn about earning the respect of others.

tubes are a noisy device " per nature ", tubes designs have higher distortions level than SS or hybrids one, tubes have heavy problems to reproduce accurately both frequency extremes specially the low bass where ( beteen other things ) does not have control over the woofers like the SS topology, tubes are untrusty: time to time ( very short time ) blow-up, tubes are not performance consistent: almost every single day sound different ( many people don't take in count because every day are in touch with their systems )

Rauliruegas, I gotta call you on this one. *None* of the above is true. Tubes are *lower* distortion than transistors, noise is a red herring (either are noisy *or* quiet- you know that), the 'woofer control' comment is right out (mythological) and frankly, dealing with the reliability of transistors in the studio the last few days: give me tubes- at least they can be serviced! If a transistor bites you you're down for the count. And finally your comment about tubes being inconsistent is just wrong. I've had the same tubes in my Neumann U67s for the last 20 years and the mics get a lot of use, often on for days at a time. In the same 20 years the transistors in my Mellotron are toast.

OTOH I find that power tubes have variation- but not day to day. Triodes will have very consistent operation right up the end of their service life, which is often 10,000 hours. Pentodes are more variable, but even they will not be different from one day to the next!

I understand that you may think that you are the exception to all this. That's great! Now put yourself on the other side of that *same* coin and realize that there are the same exceptions in the tube world.