tubes and analog

Here are some claims/concerns about the "wonder" product they've been trying to sell in the threads but haven't addressed:

>>Claims to have an unprecedented flat frequency response from 0.01Hz to 1 mHz<<

Well that’s crap as Spectral designs and others go beyond that.

>>Claim of 150 dB common mode rejection<<

More crap. The halves of a differential circuit must be matched within one - thirty millions (the deviation is one unit for thirty million units) - while even "dual" devices, made from a single crystal, are matched within one to a hundred. There is nothing in existence to measure such deviation. For the readership, in tube designs/ matching within one to thirty is common and OK.

>>Claim they match the discrete devices a million times as precisely as the others do.<<

Obviously, this is pure BS and more BS.

>>Claim distortion of 2/10000 (two - ten thousands of a percent - i.e.) the claimed distortion is minus 104 dB.<<

More crap. This is by far impossible to measure with any equipment on the phono level because they would have to have a device with the resolution to picovolts, and such instruments do not exist.
Additionally the claimed distortion figure is over 30 dB below (!) the theoretical noise floor for an MC cartridge, and 5 times as low as the lowest noise floor from any known solid state device in existence.

For any engineer, such ridiculous claims make the design and the designers look anything but real and serious. However, it makes for great promotion which is the issue now correct?

Hmmm, Audiofeil, why don't you ask him to explain it rather than using words like crap, BS, ridiculous, etc. You're posts have been nothing but antagonistic for so long it has become tiresome.

You keep attacking Raul like he's trying to sell his preamp, but I don't see you attacking Ralph when he speaks of the virtues of his products. Is this because you sell Atma's??? Why the hypocrisy???

I love it when manufacturers like Ralph and JCarr and Raul/Jose and Hagerman discuss their designs and thoughts here. There is valuable info to be gained from all of them and I hope they all continue to post so that we can benefit from what they have to say.

Unfortunately, Audiofeil, just like Raul has probably turned off many people with his posts, you have made it clear to at least me, that even in your native language you have a lot to learn about earning the respect of others.

tubes are a noisy device " per nature ", tubes designs have higher distortions level than SS or hybrids one, tubes have heavy problems to reproduce accurately both frequency extremes specially the low bass where ( beteen other things ) does not have control over the woofers like the SS topology, tubes are untrusty: time to time ( very short time ) blow-up, tubes are not performance consistent: almost every single day sound different ( many people don't take in count because every day are in touch with their systems )

Rauliruegas, I gotta call you on this one. *None* of the above is true. Tubes are *lower* distortion than transistors, noise is a red herring (either are noisy *or* quiet- you know that), the 'woofer control' comment is right out (mythological) and frankly, dealing with the reliability of transistors in the studio the last few days: give me tubes- at least they can be serviced! If a transistor bites you you're down for the count. And finally your comment about tubes being inconsistent is just wrong. I've had the same tubes in my Neumann U67s for the last 20 years and the mics get a lot of use, often on for days at a time. In the same 20 years the transistors in my Mellotron are toast.

OTOH I find that power tubes have variation- but not day to day. Triodes will have very consistent operation right up the end of their service life, which is often 10,000 hours. Pentodes are more variable, but even they will not be different from one day to the next!

I understand that you may think that you are the exception to all this. That's great! Now put yourself on the other side of that *same* coin and realize that there are the same exceptions in the tube world.

Dear Atmasphere: A well SS design has lower distortion that a well tube design.

In my last trips to USA in three different audio systems: three tube audio devices blow up, one of them was Atmasphere.

Ralph this is not a tournament, you and me like every single music lover are looking for the same: the best quality sound reproduction, you choose to do it through tubes and that's fine other people like me choose doing through SS technology.
Ralph, I'm not against the tube technology: the subject is that till today the SS technology help me in a best way to achieve my music sound priorities, if in the future I find that the tubes ( I owned for many years tube electronics ) could help me you can be sure that I will use it, but today they can't in any way. Btw, by design we dissapear those odd harmonics.

Fortunately for all of us the tube and SS designs are " suffering " improvements over " past " designs and that fact has to be a motive of great enthusiasm for all the audio community.

Instead that we use our time speaking about the advantages/disadvantages of either technology IMHO we could use that time trying to improve our designs or better yet try to work " together " for a better future on the quality music sound reproduction.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Back to the original question:

should i consider a further upgrade to a better tube phono pre or is it simply that a change from SS to Tube amp is more "pronounced" in digital playback?

I strongly suggest to get/build a proper rack and address power filtration in its entirety. Me don't trust PS Audio...me trust Sean & Deano. Search the Jedi archives, young Padwan.

Vibrations will transform into digital jitter. This could be a major cause of digital listening fatigue. Although I'm not against tubes I am against using them to mask system anomalies. Poor room acoustics will exacerbate the jitter issue, especially around 3-4 KHz. It will sound very fatiguing. The rear wall desperately needs treatment and so the first reflection points. Bet you don't have slap echo treatments either.

Last but not least: get the sub out of the equation while you fix this. You might find out it's not necessary at all.

Look Mom, what Ralph Atma, Hagtech, Audiofeil & Raoul didn't come up with!

With psychic power and primal intensity,