tubes and analog


I just "upgraded" from a Mac SS integrated to a Prima luna dialogue 2 tube amp. The reason that I changed amps was that i assumed that the tube amp would be a better match for my Zu Druid speakers. The amp change was a big improvment for listening through my CDP....but not so when listening to my Rega P9. I had to switch to my spare SS phono stage (Graham slee) to get it to sound right. I was using a tube phono (AES) with my Mac. In Short, my tube amp with SS phono stage is not really an upgrade from my Mac with Tube phono stage. My question is.....should i consider a further upgrade to a better tube phono pre or is it simply that a change from SS to Tube amp is more "pronounced" in digital playback?
csmithbarc
Dear Audiokinesis: The problem was " more " than a simple single tube: first one tube, few minutes latter a second one and finally damage the speaker.

Atmasphere is right the amp don't suffer a serious damage, but I'm talking of a whole sale tube technology problems when used on audio:

+++++ " You certainly know every single tube technology limitations: very high output impedance, tubes are a noisy device " per nature ", tubes designs have higher distortions level than SS or hybrids one, tubes have heavy problems to reproduce accurately both frequency extremes specially the low bass where ( beteen other things ) does not have control over the woofers like the SS topology, tubes are untrusty: time to time ( very short time ) blow-up, tubes are not performance consistent: almost every single day sound different ( many people don't take in count because every day are in touch with their systems ). Jh you know that we can go on speaking about but this is not the subject: you and me know that there is nothing perfect in tubes or SS electronics.

Jh, the subject is that the " very old myths " about SS designs, fortunately, dissapear. Today we have very good SS designs as we can find good tube designs. The best of all is that today the customers have several choices that in the past don't. " +++++

and I'm talking of those tube problems only because Mr. Atmasphere " thinks " that he lives in an " island " where only exist TUBES and where the other technologies are not " up to the task ".

This is totally untrue there are hybrid and SS designs ( tube designs too ) that not only are very good designs but that outperforms the Atmasphere gear.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
This has become shameful. I'm glad Hagtech pulled out just in time.

Behave yourselves.

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Amen, brothers Ralph, Jim, Duke ...

THE INDUSTRY IS MEASURING THE WRONG THINGS.

THD is a meaningless number. The ear is remarkably sensitive to odd-order harmonics - responding rather pleasantly to even harmonics - especially 2nd order.

Keep in mind that 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc. show up as very low numbers, but too much of these small numbers will chase you out of the room.

Some of these odd-order 'nasties' in minute proportions can be perceived as 'sparkle' or low-level detail - much like the trap people fall into when they mistakenly interpret speakers with elevated upper midrange / low-treble as having detail and pace.

This recognition of 'sparkle' and 'resolution' usually comes a few months before you find their latest prized piece of gear for sale on Audiogon.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier
Dear Raul,

When you wrote:
and I'm talking of those tube problems only because Mr. Atmasphere " thinks " that he lives in an " island " where only exist TUBES and where the other technologies are not " up to the task ".

Tube problems my dear Raul are a consequence of bad design and not the nature of tubes.

As far as reliability is concerned, apart from a certain manufacturer in Ralph's home state (hint: it's not Atmasphere, but does begin with the letter "A"), all of my tube gear has been more reliable than my s-s gear.

You may argue about sonics, but tubes have it all over s-s in terms of simplicity, reliability, field serviceability, and immunity from voltage spikes.

As you know all too well, we are all in this business because we love it. Ralph, Jim, you and I don't make design decisions based on the prompting of our corporate accountants, but rather our chosen path is fueled by our passions.

You endorse your design because you love it - as do Ralph, Jim, and I.

Now, I won't deny that some behavior becomes pathological over time, but I contend that we'd be nuts to be in this business if we didn't love it. There are easier ways to pay the mortgage.

We have all in our own way landed on our own island paradise, and I consider it disingenuous of you to single Ralph (Atmasphere) out in this discussion.

As has been pointed out on more than one occasion, the number of companies manufacturing tube gear is growing and not shrinking. This is quite amazing when you take into consideration the marketing blitz from the large corporations.

The marketplace is speaking. Is the marketplace mad?

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier
The marketplace is speaking. Is the marketplace mad?

Like I said, I am not against tubes but am against using them to mask system anomalies. I think a large portion of tube equipment sales are due to this unfortunate latter use. My system is 100% solid state/monoblock based and my main amps have the 'to die for' midrange and holographic presentation of tubes along with the beef and sonic neutrality of solid state. The subwoofer amps deliver globs of highly controlled current at a very high speed.

My main amps

My subwoofer amps

But that's just me...

At any rate, digital is making great strides and Dan Wright replaced his Atma Sphere amps for Channel Islands digital monoblocks. Hey, it's the 21st century!

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