Denon DL 103 vs DL 103R

Sorry Grimace, here we go again. You apparently failed to understand what I wrote or I failed to state it clearly.

Moving your counterweight further back will REDUCE your tracking force. If you must move it back to increase your measured force, something is drastically wrong. And your lightweight 6.6 gram cartridge makes this more the case. If anything, with your set up it would seem you could not get close to the recommended tracking weight with your counterweight all the way forward (closest to the pivot point).

Next, published frequency response of a cartridge (never believable anyway) has nothing to do with compliance and resonant frequency. even though both may be stated in Hz. The resonant frequency should be below the lowest frequency on a record but not so low as potential rumble with your turntable. This is why the 7 or 8 Hz to 12 Hz range is often recommended, it falls between these critical areas.

So, at this point before you: a) take further steps to set your VTF (BTW your Shure instructions should tell you to measure with the brush up but compensate the force accordingly), b) consider installing your Grace arm on your Thorens, or c) begin shopping for a cartridge other than your Shure, STOP and do more research on cartridge installation and adjustments. I recommended some sources previously. Please, I hope I do not offend you (I'm trying to help) but your replies indicate you do not have basic understanding about the workings of tables/arms/cartridges. Further questions at this point are not productive until you gain a better grasp of these relationships. Some other choices to Google are Laura Dearborn and Robert Harley who have written very good introductions such as you need.

Again, good luck with this, Don't get discouraged because eventually you will be rewarded with understanding and then some great music.

Pryso,

I think Grimace made it clear that he was having difficulty getting the VTF light enough which is why he had the counter weight so far back. The extra counterweight ring would certainly help in his stated predicament. It appears that he has, perhaps, done his homework sufficiently to set the cartridge, although double checking couldn't hurt. It looks like you and I may be cross posting due to the delay in the posting process. ;-)

Piedpiper, even if we end up cross posting, we are both trying to help Grimace set up to enjoy music. Anyway, I believe Hdm's last post offered a good summary.

It is apparent that Grimace has a real problem -

"The problem I have with the counterweight is that in order to get the tracking force down below 2g as recommended, I have to really turn the counterweight out pretty far to the point where its hitting the cover"

Moving the counterweight all the way to the rear of the stub, or adding extra weight, does not make sense to me either with a 6.6 gram cartridge. Perhaps getting the friend he borrowed the stylus force gage from to look at his set up could save further posting here.

Yes, there must be a cross in the postings. I put one up early this morning that said, "It's enough to make you reach for a CD." It apparently never made it.

Yeah, I've been through that arm a dozen times and I've always had this same tracking force issue. I even have the cartridge set back a tad in the headshell (although still aligned) to try to compensate for he weight issue. I did re-adjust the weight again last night and am now running it at 1.75g with the brush down, which is within range. I checked the arm too. Without really jamming it, there is no play in the pivit point and this is a fixed head-shell, so I really don't know what to say about it. I may have to look into finding someone who knows something about this arm to take a look at it. It does seem odd that the weight issue would be so pronounced in such a fairly common tonearm.

I suppose its possible the scale is out of whack, but I doubt it. It seems to work fine for its owner. Its a technics SH-50P1. Its a paid to ge the stylus onto the little pin point, but otherwise it seems to be in order. Perhaps I should start a thread just on the arm, since it seems that this issue should be sorted out before addressing the type of cartridge I'm using.