best "entry level" audiophile TT?

04-20-07: Artizen65
...The last piece of the puzzle is the phono pre. I use the internal phone pre in my integrated.

Could I achieve better sonics and tone with a dedicated pre probably but not without the cost factor of the pre and cables.

It depends on how good the phono section is in your integrated amp. Some integrateds (e.g., Creek) have good built-in or plug-in phono sections.

Given the cost and quality of your digital front end, I'd be surprised if you had an inexpensive integrated.

However, if you think you'd be better off with an outboard phono section, I'd recommend a Creek OBH-18 or Bellari VP 129, either of which go for about $250. I haven't heard the Bellari but it's a Stereophile Class B component, where most of the others in that group cost $900 to $1500. I have heard various Creek phono units and always liked them. To keep costs down on the extra interconnects while getting good signal transfer, I recommend the Audioquest Blue Racer or Black Mamba interconnects available at Audio Advisor. I have two pairs of Black Mambas and a pair of Blue Racers. The great thing about either of these is that they're made of single-crystal OCC copper, and the difference with the Black Mambas is that they're also 99.9999% pure copper. The Racers are $65 and the Mambas are $85 for a 1 meter pair. That's cheap for that level of copper quality, especially from AQ.

Dear Flyingred: +++++ " I hadn't realized it would be so tough - in my experience rubber belt tables don't do good (enough for me) speed stability and leading edge transients as well as .... " +++++

Well, " speed stability " ( IMHO ) every other thibgs the same makes a huge difference and yes many BD TTs are not up to the task but there are some that are: Walker, Raven, Brinkman Simon Yorke, etc, etc, unfortunatelly some of these have very high prices.
Now, as important ( critical I say ) as is the speed stability there are other important subjects that count on the overall performance: platter material, suspension, arm board material, kind of belt used, etc, etc.

+++++ " Once you've lost some fidelity at the source you can never get it back. " +++++

This statement is of paramount importance ( specially at the analog reproduction system ) and when we really understand it we could take care in deep about in any single link of the analog chain: TT/cartridge/cartridge set-up/tonearm/cables,Phonolinepreamp, etc.

+++++ " IMO, too many people upgrade too frequently to "improve" their system when a little work with the variables would deliver the same effect " +++++
This statement it is directly related with the last one: we have to try hard on what we have trying to setting up everything on target.

+++++ " I would also challenge your assertion about cartridges - if you work on VTA/VTF/azimuty and impedance/capacitance matching then the difference between carts becomes quite subtle. " +++++

It is only on this statement that I can't agree with you because if you have a good resolution system then the differences that you could hear will not " subtle " at least was not on my experiences about. All cartridges have its own " signature sound " that is different ( not subtle ) from one to each other ( inclusive in the same manufacturer line ), maybe I never try too hard about to had what you are experienced. So I'm with Rotarius opinion on this subject.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Hi Raul / 'Red ...

Cartridges certainly have their signature sound. I agree.

I do think however, that we can take actions to make them sound more alike by tuning the interface ... addressing where they stray from the truth. Your (Raul's) extensive studies in arm and cartridge matching is but one area in this exploration.

I had an experience a few years ago, which spun my head around.

As I was working through several highly regarded tonearms (fill in the blanks - the brand doesn't matter), several of the arms resulted in quite a few cartridges sounding more alike while at the same time, pulling more music out of the groove.

As I pondered this paradox, it occurred to me that these tonearms were more effective at draining vibrations (resonance) from the system. This had the effect of mitigating one of the characteristic differences between cartridges.

Surely the other distinguishing factors remained - motor generator, stylus profile and moving mass, compliance, coil inductance, etc., but by better damping out cartridge resonance, one distinguishing characteristic was minimized - thus, improving resolution while at the same time making the cartridges sound a bit more alike.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Dear Tom: +++++ " I do think however, that we can take actions to make them sound more alike by tuning the interface........but by better damping out cartridge resonance, one distinguishing characteristic was minimized.... " +++++

Fortunatelly that is not happenning ( in electronics is a lot more easy to achieve it but with transducers like cartridges/speakers is almost impossible, like I say: fortunatelly!!!! ), IMHO I think that we prefer the cartridge differences more than " they sound alike ": " the flavor/taste is in the variety ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.