2. analog
  3. 1197397501

An Audiophile Goal

An Audiophile Goal.

I have been grappling with the perceived problem of listening to LPs at the same volume setting, for every LP. The original post that I addressed this problem with is here http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1179765549&openmine&zzAcoustat6&4&5#Acoustat6. It was to discuss my idea of playing back all LPs at the same volume setting regardless of type of music or recording etc. To say it was a debacle would be an understatement to say the least. The discussion did not start the way I thought it would and went quickly downhill from there. I would like to put that behind me and realize why it was so controversial and failed as a discussion. As I originally said this idea was new to me and it took such a long time to coagulate my thoughts about this and the reasons why it works. The answer is obvious now. I didn't have an audiophile goal.

I got the answer from reading the recent post about J. Gordon Holts article in Stereophile which was discussed on Audiogon. .
The reference being about an audiophile goal in one of the posts. This was my thought, myself and audiophiles in general don't have an audiophile goal (actually, I do have several but I will stick to the topic). It seems that no one can agree on a goal, its all so subjective some say, I like it loud, I like it quiet, I like a lot of bass, I like imaging and on and on. This is fine, that is why we all buy different speakers and equipment. It comes down to you can't measure music. You have to hear it, does it make your toe tap? Can you listen at a low level? Is the tweeter too bright? Is the Bass too loud? Ad nauseum. And there we go again are my toes tapping enough? What is low level listening? Is the bass loud enough for hip hop but too loud for a violin concerto?

I found myself an audiophile goal and an easy one at that, its 20-20k hz. Yeah, you like it too. Right? You buy phono cartridges, pre-amps amps etc. that are flat 20-20k hz. So my audiophile goal is to get 20-20k hz flat (as possible). I said I needed a goal! I know there is more to it than that, but undeniably it is a goal. Now if I go with a test reference of 83db at 1000hz from my test LP this will be an excellent level for dynamics, noise levels and acuteness of hearing. All that is required is 1000hz at 83db from the test LP and all other freq matching this level, So 10,000hz and 5,000hz along with 500,100, 80, 50 and 30hz with all of the freq in between at the specified level of 83db will all be played back off of the test LP at the same level or as close as possible as can be obtained within a systems speakers and equipment and rooms limitations. Find this level and you leave your volume control set to this position for every LP you play. Pretty simple actually.

The original idea came to me slowly over the last three to four years, though I struggled with the quandary for as long as I can remember and I have yet to hear anyone say, sure you don't do that? I thought we all did. All because I didn't have an audiophile goal. Now I find out that perhaps even J. Gordon Holt may not have an audiophile goal, even one as simple as this. The best thing is now I get to listen to all of my LPs at the same gain setting with its attendant qualities of dynamics, constant noise levels, unchanging freq response and a host of other benefits which come along for the ride.

I knew it was wrong to be changing volume levels and bass levels for different LPs. Jumping up in the middle of a song to hear the bass drums or turning it down for a quiet violin solo and doing the same for complete albums. It was insane, I always felt like I was in junior high school cranking it up for the cool parts. But every one does it, so did I. I was missing that audiophile goal.

I enjoy listening to my Lps, many of which I still have from my early high school days and everything in between which amounts to about 2500 quality LPs. As a now confirmed audiophile, now that I have a realistic and perhaps more importantly a measurable goal, I could start figuring out which albums sound good and which do not. It was easy, every LP is played back at the same gain level (volume control setting if you will) and guess what you hear? Every Lp for what it actually sounds like.

Another benefit is that every system you hear is played back to the same standard from the same test LP, perhaps it could even be used at audio shows where every room is played back at this reference setting. If you choose not to listen at the standard then it is stated at the door that reference setting is either higher or lower than the reference. This way if you choose not to abuse your hearing in a room that is 6db above the reference standard you are warned before entering.

And all of this because J Gordon Holt didn't have an audiophile goal.

If you can listen to one Lp at a certain level whether it be a high or low level why can't you listen to any other record at that level?

Just a few thoughts.
Thanks,
Bob
acoustat6
emailists
923 posts
 
Hi Bob,

The post in which you quoted me was about low quality "bootleg recordings" made on microphones snuck into concerts.

It had nothing to do with LP playback at all. The gist was that on my high end system, some bootlegs didn't sound very good, yet on my lower quality computer system, the same bootlegs sounded more listenable. The entire thread was asking about if other people listened to very low quality recordings on high end systems.

This has nothing to do with your original question about establishing a reference level of LP playback. I offered you my proffessional input about reference playback levels from my field, in the hopes of getting you to realize that perhaps your efforts towards higher fidelity may best best be directed elsewhere.

Yet rather than address any of the annecdotes I or anyone else presented, you chose to read through a bunch of my past posts looking for anything resembling a contradiction with which to discredit me. I see the pattern here and it's obvious the help you need is not to be found on any audio forum.
mlsstl
1,438 posts
 
Emailists, I'd have to comment that it is pretty common for people to use quotes out of context. The likelihood of this happening increases when you have someone like Bob who fervently believes he has stumbled onto an insight that few others, if any, have been lucky enough to see.

However, I'm glad you had a chance to correct the record (pun intended) regarding his misapplication of your words.

Bob's view that the volume control on a stereo system has one setting that is sacred above all others is rather unique. I have to say it certainly seems to offer him some type of satisfaction that increases his appreciation of his audiophile hobby.

That said, I still prefer adjusting the volume control so the level in my room is appropriate for the music I'm playing. That adds to my enjoyment and appreciation of the music.

I cannot fault the recording engineer and record producer for not wasting signal-to-noise ratio when they are making a recording of short duration, softly played music. Nor can I fault the engineer who reduces those levels to capture the sound of kettle drums in a long symphony. In both cases my opinion (which seems to be the more widely accepted one) is that the engineer is doing a fine job of making the most within the limitations of the media. The fact that I need to twiddle with my volume control a bit to take advantage of his efforts doesn't bother me.
acoustat6 OP
357 posts
 
Hi Emailists, I have not come here to bicker with you, but since you have not discussed anything with me, prior to your previous post, which was your first post to me. Where I correctly quote you..

"Our hobby is an obssesive one for sure, but when other people who share your zeal for the best reproduction possible are telling you that your focus is misguided, you may have to examen in your life what is going on, perhaps under the guidance of a professional."

And in your second post to me you say, and I quote,

"it's obvious the help you need is not to be found on any audio forum."

I had no idea who were or your thoughs on anything audio (except that you are a professional!) so I did read some of your posts.

If you would like to tell me why you think I am wrong, we can discuss it. Don't go right off the bat telling me I am wrong, and no reason why, except for your "professional opinion" (tin eared gardener?), AND that you think I need "professional help" or "advice not available in this forum."
If anyone is interested in discussing my thoughts on a particular subject, thoughtfully and with interest, it is not you job to discredit me and and say that I am wrong with nothing to back it up except your "professional opinion" (what was that again?) and your (which, by the way you did not give in your origional post) or prior posters "anecdotes".

Is this the way we are discussing things?

Bob
mlsstl
1,438 posts
 
Bob, I'd remind you that it is easy to correctly quote a single sentence someone wrote but still have it be out of the original context in an effort to have it support an unrelated premise.

That appears to be what happened in this case. I'd further comment that it is also not uncommon for the person quoted out of context to be somewhat sensitive when they feel their words have been used to support a position with which they do not agree.

You've got a very unusual take on the subject of volume controls. That's fine but no need to be surprised that the world isn't following your lead. The only important thing is that it makes sense to you.
cdwallace
216 posts
 
"Apparently everyone here on the Gon needs professional help, from the single driver speaker aficionados to the electrostatic speaker admirer to the SS amp lover and their tube lover counterparts and don't forget CD vs LP's, are we are all misguided if we think differently from each other? "

Yes...emphatically yes! Everyone's opinion is that if its not relevant in their minds, its misguided energy requiring professional help.

Welcome to the largest shortcoming on an audiophile...opinion. Reference is non-existent. This issue is the epitome of misguided energy; what should matter is now left to opinion and is so convoluted it no longer matters.

Acoustat6...let it go! You have an achievable goal that will enhance both your system, enjoyment and knowledge. It doesn't matter to others. Save yourself the trouble. Become a hermit like the rest of us and keep your knowledge to yourself. If someone really cares they'll reach out to those who have the true experience and not an opinion. Until then, keep at it and enjoy the trip.

Craig
More to discover