2. analog
  3. 1204584949

Got a New CD Player and Now I'm Bummed

Hope to get some help here...I recently added an Esoteric X-03SE to my system the details of which you can see here. I've always been a huge fan of vinyl and have a large collection--many more LP's than CD's. The problem is my digital front end is now WAY better sounding than my analogue set up. (My last CD player, a Naim CDX2, was about on par with my table--better in some areas, not as good in others). I'm finding myself listening to many more CD's while my LP's are dying for attention. I never thought this would happen to me! So, now I'm faced with upgrading my analogue to the point of parity (or better?) with my digital. (Wierd, right?). I could use some suggestions. One limiting factor is the overall height of the new analogue set up cannot be much taller than what I have since it needs to sit on a wall mount shelf that fits inside our entertainment center. So, I need a table/arm/cartridge set up that sounds DRAMATICALLY better than my Scout/JMW9/Dyna 20XM but doesn't need a ton of head room. What do you think I need to spend to get significantly better performance than what I have already? What would you all suggest for a new analogue front end? I'm thinking a Scoutmaster, Sota Cosmos or perhaps going back to an LP 12 with works. Ideas? Thanks!
128x128dodgealum
cmk
397 posts
 
Dodgealum
You could also consider the Clearaudio Performance table($2800) with the magnetic bearing. Change the cart to a decent MC, say the Dyna 17D3($895) or the XX2($1850) and round it off with the great sounding Aqvox Phono2(EUR949).

I also rate the Galibier option highly, with Thom packaging the Serac with some Dyna carts even: $4700 with the 20XL and $4900 with the 17D3. You should even ask if he packages the XX2.

I rank the Aqvox phono much higher than its price indicates, I think its a giant killer.

Either of these options (if setup optimally) will easily outperform the X03. Disclaimer: I have no financial/personal interest in any of the above products.
nedmast
17 posts
 
Dodgealum,
I've followed this thread for awhile and am still puzzled as to why you're hearing the dramatic difference that you are. If you're willing to spend about $10 and a couple of hours of time, I would at least try a different arrangement to be sure the problem is in your analog rig. First, move your coffee table (or some other suitable table) over near your cabinet. Buy a 1.5x20 inch bicycle tube and a piece of 3/4 inch plywood to fit your tt. Place the tube on the table and the plywood on that and inflate the tube SLIGHTLY - just enough to raise the plywood shelf a bit. Now you've got simple, but effective, pneumatic isolation. Then put the tt on that and get it perfectly leveled, and hook it up and play it. If the differences are still dramatic, you've only spent a few dollars and some time to determine that you need to upgrade or change - at least the cartridge. If they're no longer dramatic, you know you need to relocate the tt. A second idea is, are you sure the Esoteric player isn't coloring the sound in some way that you consider pleasing? Is it a tube unit?
french_fries
815 posts
 
the vpi scout is supposedly a well-designed turntable and more than a few professional reviewers seem to think it performs well above its price level. perhaps even throwing a blanket over the front of the cabinet to shield the turntable from air-borne vibrations would help to resolve this issue. a damaged stylus or a malfuntioning phono-stage would also be something to investigate. if everything is working as it should, the turntable should sound "different" than the cdp, and perhaps not quite as revealing, but it should still sound like music. the only thing i find with my aries turntable is that rock and roll alblums that i used to like sound tinny and poorly balanced, while a decent classical recording or a blue note sounds pretty darn good.
but since i upgraded to a very good digital front end, i can listen to either source, vinyl or cd. they sound different, but i get used to either one very quickly. now, if i get a $20k turntable i would certainly expect some extra information to pop out of the grooves, but with about 500 alblums and about 750 cd's, i'm kinda happy to leave well enough alone if you know what i mean. and heck, cd's have been getting awfully good in the last several years, with hdcd, sacd, dsd, 4d, 20bit, etc. then there are giant-killer cd players out there as well as turntables for less than $3k that get the job done. oh, and PS- i do not hear the belt on my turntable or motor noise or wow and flutter; the jmw arm tracks just fine thank you. i do have the sds-controller but i'm not aware of any dramatic improvements in the sound from adding it over the vpi-plc. AND PSS- the esoteric cdp's in other threads get trashed for sounding too analytical and even "harsh" when compared to competing cdp's- go figure...
dgarretson
2,608 posts
 
French fries, I can confirm the substance of Doug Deacon's remarks after going back & forth on my VPI TNT between thread drive vs. stock rubber bands, with and without PLC and Mark Kelly's AC-1 two-phase speed controller. The rubber bands don't cause problems that I hear as obvious wow & flutter, but they do contribute to sugglishness, bass slurring, lack of focus, discontinuousness across the frequency range, and edgy treble. This is all improved after conversion to a drive belt made of less compliant material. A good speed controller improves things further by reducing warble in piano music and revealing rounder & more textured instrument body and more precise spatial cues. The Kelly controller is way ahead of the PLC in this regard. Getting the strobe to read spot on is an ancillary benefit of a speed controller.

As the Scout is a close cousin, I can only assume it will benefit from some of these changes. The more I tweak around with TT drive trains & platforms & siting, the more I believe that forum discussions (and some manufacturers' upgrade paths) tend to over-emphasize the role of platter and plinth weight & material in determining the gestalt of vinyl.

I do agree with you that after a certain point of refinement, the differences remaining between CDP & TT are more of kind than of degree.
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
French fries,

As Dgarretson noted, the problems caused by an elastic belt are hardly so obvious as wow and flutter. I haven't heard those from a table since the one I had as a twelve year old. ;-)

My verrrry lengthy description might have read like a description of horrible sonics. That wasn't my intent. But the musical benefits of linear torque delivery to the platter only need to be heard for a few seconds to be convincing. I have a friend with an Aries who DIY'd a better belt from mylar - he'll never go back. You should give it a try.

Dgarretson,

Thread drive is a nice improvement over rubber, but you could double that improvement with a wider belt that combines thread's non-elasticity with greater surface area - which reduces slippage as the belt goes 'round the motor capstan (a risk with thread). It requires a motor capstan and platter than can accommodate a wide belt of course, but having experimented with all the above and more we know it's worth it.
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