What to expect in a TT upgrade?

Hello, What Cartridge were you using originally? You fail to mention this? This may have been the culprit, as well as incorrect set-up?

Going with a better, more sophisticated Turntable won't necessarily mean easier set-up, but usually better Arms have better features, and that's probably what you pay for in part when you buy better Arms. Things like VTA on the Fly.

Stillthough, with any Pivotal Tonearm, the same pricipals apply regardless, and they are proper Cartridge Alignment, (Overhang, Zenith, Azimuth)

Then VTA, and VTF. If you don't have good tools to aid you, I'd suggest getting them. These tools (protractor, VTF Scale, Test Record) are never a use one-time deal, and then put them away forever. They always are needed to have around.

This table, while I don't know a heck of a lot about it, was said to be a very decent table.

Your money might be most wisely spent on a great Cartridge first, that will be compatible with your new Phono Stage, and work well with your Arm. The Shelter 501 might be fine, and an improvement from where you are at right now, but you might gain even further performance going above this?

The good Cartridge won't be a waste of money, provided it will be compatible to the Tonearm's Mass-Compliance, and be a good match with your Pre-Amp. If you should then decide to upgrade Table-Arm, the Cartridge will be on hand to be retro-fitted. Mark

hi,

Can you all really hear a substantial difference between a $1000.00 and a $10,000 TT/Cart system. Are we listening to the music or the equipment? Granted there may be some differences in the sound but are these differences better or just different?

I have a Denon 103R cart with the Denon DPM 500M Table and it sounds great to me with my Thiel 2.4 spaeakers and Cary amps. I feel no need to spend more, I guess I'm lucky.

good listening

Larry

01-31-08: Larry510 said:
"Can you all really hear a substantial difference between a $1000.00 and a $10,000 TT/Cart system. Are we listening to the music or the equipment? Granted there may be some differences in the sound but are these differences better or just different?"

I don't know how we got on $10k TT systems, but yes, the difference is very clear. Going to just $3000 gains you a ton in resolution.

There are good reasons to limit oneself to $1000; however, the next step up yields pretty substantial gains in quality. I think there is a point of diminishing returns that steepens at the $3000 to $5000 range, but you still continue to gain.

Of course, this is all dependent on proper setup and the total system interface is relevant. But, done right, you do gain substantially at higher price points. The OP gave us a target range and I think he's the only one in position to judge if it's "worth it" to him.

Dave

IME, it's more like the Law of Increasing Returns. As the system gets better the differences become more and more apparent. ...and they are very musically significant, assuming the "improvement" is truly an improvement and that your discernment is up to the task.

It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge, experience, engineering, time and consequent expense to "get it ALL REALLY right." Assuming you want tonal neutrality, frequency extension, coherence, ultimate transparency, full scale volume and effortless dynamics, you better believe that SOME systems in the $200k+ range are virtual miracle workers. You may call the differences between a system like that and a cherry picked $20k system subtle but they are profound.

Hello Larry, Yes, I can picture your set-up, this is a very attractive Table. Many followers of the Denon 103R as well, as being a great value.

I understand your analogy, and I'm sure basically every other forumite does as well. I would say a large percentage "came up through the ranks" so to speak, and didn't "wake up" into Analog with a cold start, and then with the very first Turntable they bought, went out and sprung $10K-$30 for it.

But there are quite a few Forumites here who have multiple tens of thousands of dollars invested, and basically have no regrets.

Some people spend $40K for a Bass Boat to use twice a year, buy a vintage Vehicle-Show Car that might have 500 mi. per year placed on the Odometer.

And then us music lovers I reckon, who work hard for thier money, and go through hell at times to make it, want to come home, sit back, and get thier socks blown off, by a system that has the least amount of compromise. This of course is where the big bucks can come in.

Of course as you, and others know Larry, a Turntable, or an Amp, of whatever, that let's say cost $10,000 doesn't sound ten times better than a $1,000 one.

I guess many here "have had the rest, and now want the best". Or at least the best they can afford.

Sometimes with certain hobbies, one goes without, and deprives themselves of other things, to fund these "idiosyncranic" hobbies.

I have many friends into the Amateur Astronomy Hobby, with large Triplet Apochromatic Refractor Telescopes that cost what a "good" Automobile cost, state of the art Mounting Systems with GOTO Operation at the push of a button, Elaborate Personal Observatories, CCD Camera Equipment that cost multiple $1,000's. One fella I know spent $45K for a CCD Camera to go on the back of his own 24" RC Cassegrain Reflector Telescope housed in his own personal Observatory up in Cloudcroft, NM.

As I close Larry, I reckon it's what floats your boat! ;-) Take care, Mark