What to expect in a TT upgrade?

01-31-08: Larry510 said:
"Can you all really hear a substantial difference between a $1000.00 and a $10,000 TT/Cart system. Are we listening to the music or the equipment? Granted there may be some differences in the sound but are these differences better or just different?"

I don't know how we got on $10k TT systems, but yes, the difference is very clear. Going to just $3000 gains you a ton in resolution.

There are good reasons to limit oneself to $1000; however, the next step up yields pretty substantial gains in quality. I think there is a point of diminishing returns that steepens at the $3000 to $5000 range, but you still continue to gain.

Of course, this is all dependent on proper setup and the total system interface is relevant. But, done right, you do gain substantially at higher price points. The OP gave us a target range and I think he's the only one in position to judge if it's "worth it" to him.

Dave

IME, it's more like the Law of Increasing Returns. As the system gets better the differences become more and more apparent. ...and they are very musically significant, assuming the "improvement" is truly an improvement and that your discernment is up to the task.

It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge, experience, engineering, time and consequent expense to "get it ALL REALLY right." Assuming you want tonal neutrality, frequency extension, coherence, ultimate transparency, full scale volume and effortless dynamics, you better believe that SOME systems in the $200k+ range are virtual miracle workers. You may call the differences between a system like that and a cherry picked $20k system subtle but they are profound.

Hello Larry, Yes, I can picture your set-up, this is a very attractive Table. Many followers of the Denon 103R as well, as being a great value.

I understand your analogy, and I'm sure basically every other forumite does as well. I would say a large percentage "came up through the ranks" so to speak, and didn't "wake up" into Analog with a cold start, and then with the very first Turntable they bought, went out and sprung $10K-$30 for it.

But there are quite a few Forumites here who have multiple tens of thousands of dollars invested, and basically have no regrets.

Some people spend $40K for a Bass Boat to use twice a year, buy a vintage Vehicle-Show Car that might have 500 mi. per year placed on the Odometer.

And then us music lovers I reckon, who work hard for thier money, and go through hell at times to make it, want to come home, sit back, and get thier socks blown off, by a system that has the least amount of compromise. This of course is where the big bucks can come in.

Of course as you, and others know Larry, a Turntable, or an Amp, of whatever, that let's say cost $10,000 doesn't sound ten times better than a $1,000 one.

I guess many here "have had the rest, and now want the best". Or at least the best they can afford.

Sometimes with certain hobbies, one goes without, and deprives themselves of other things, to fund these "idiosyncranic" hobbies.

I have many friends into the Amateur Astronomy Hobby, with large Triplet Apochromatic Refractor Telescopes that cost what a "good" Automobile cost, state of the art Mounting Systems with GOTO Operation at the push of a button, Elaborate Personal Observatories, CCD Camera Equipment that cost multiple $1,000's. One fella I know spent $45K for a CCD Camera to go on the back of his own 24" RC Cassegrain Reflector Telescope housed in his own personal Observatory up in Cloudcroft, NM.

As I close Larry, I reckon it's what floats your boat! ;-) Take care, Mark

Markd51# .....excelent post, and right on the money.

Thank you all for these responses. The discussion has drifted a bit from my orignial inquiry. For the record, I have decided to increase my efforts in optimizing my current TT set-up that would included purchase of a replacement cartridge as my "cartridge man" was damanged, badly bent stylus, who knows how,(sad story) and I am currently using a sumiko blue point naked. Also, I will get out my Hi News cartridge tuning record, my protractor and sure stylus scale (maybe go about purchasing a digital if that is considered worthwhile, and tweak away. Finally, I may look into some additional isolation. When I purchased the stand (Richard Green) the table now resides on, that made a very significant difference from the Target stand. I clearly remember that. Thanks again.