How many People own Working Reel to Reel Decks?

hi Ray,

i think you and i agree on most things; particularly on our shared enjoyment of tape. i do have a different viewpoint on 2 things though.

I dont buy the overpriced Tapetrail tapes

i assume by 'Tapetrail' you mean The Tape Project

if you want 'fully licensed' 15ips 1/4" 1.5 generation master dubs, made from the 'original master tapes', dubed to a 1" working master and then dubbed on master recorders, then it will cost you. when someone offers anything remotely as good for less then you can say they are overpriced. i agree that they are not inexpensive.

instead make my own, from my very high end turntable, thus keeping all of my recordings fully analog, and they sound as good as the source.

even The Tape Project tapes are 1.5 generation; there is a difference between the 1" working master of the original and the 1/4" tape master dubs. and this is with all master recorder level decks using the original master tapes. using a 'good' tt as a source, then dubbing onto 'broadcast/prosumer level decks' will make good tapes, but not 'as good as the source' and certainly not close to what the Tape Project tapes sound like.

the original Lp will always be better than a tape of it.....the degree of accuracy of the tape will vary with every step in the chain. the tape dub of an Lp will introduce a certain 'tape' sound which is nice but will lose a degree of dynamic range from the recording process too. personally, i'll take the original Lp. in any case, the tape will sound different than the Lp....a bad thing to me.

i'm not trying to rain on your parade; but at the top of the analog performance food chain, whether vinyl or tape, there is varible performance based on the quality of everything. when you step up to the top level there are benefits. it's not for everyone. but for those who do participate in The Tape Project, the additional sonic performance is worth it.

i've compared every Tape Project tape to the best Lp pressing of that same performance on my Rockport tt. the Tape Project tapes pretty much smoke any Lp. a tape made from those Lps even on my Rockport would not be quite as good as the Lp, let alone as good as The Tape Project tape.

I've compared every Tape Project tape to the best Lp pressing of that same performance on my Rockport tt. the Tape Project tapes pretty much smoke any Lp. A tape made from those LPs even on my Rockport would not be quite as good as the LP, let alone as good as The Tape Project tape.

Agree, I have two tape machines now, Technics 1520 and Studer A810 Mk2, both smoke any turntable ever made. The real problem is availability of software.

There are easily several hundred thousand great LPs but every tape title ever made on open reel would amount to perhaps a few hundred. To reach that total some would be the terrible 3.75 IPS commercial tapes from 1960s found used Flea Bay :^).

That being said, I will not give up on open reel tape, it's wonderful to have a reference source that's clearly several steps closer to perfection so I can "reset" my standards button when evaluating various turntables, arms and cartridges.

Hi Mike,

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean the source as being the master tape. I meant the source as being my vinyl front end, or any other source I am recording. Not only me, but just about all the fellow tapeheads I associate with, cannot tell the difference from tape and source when listening. All of our tape decks have been fully spec'd or better. I use a guy that was Tandberg USA Factory Service Tech. in NYC, and he does many Open Reel machines for very wealthy people like doctors and lawyers, all very wealthy audiophiles. Maybe with measuring equipment you could tell a difference, but with our own hearing, we cannot, our decks are just that good. Maybe your hearing is better than all of ours, thats very possible, but I can speak for many of us, all with same results. None of us are using decks that we just bought in working condition, all have been completely gone through with a fine tooth comb, to the best that they can perform, and biased to todays higher biased tapes. Thats what im referring to when I made my statement. Ray

Ray,

trust me; i know that tapes made off tt's can sound very very good. i'm not being critical of them. but 'very, very good' is different than 'as good as the source' when that source is a top level tt.

as tt performance improves; making a tape that can equal it becomes more and more difficult. the refinement of cartridges and phono stage output circuts have become very very good. 70's solid state output circuts in RTR decks are crude in comparison.

the signal path is full of IC's and other 'crud' like any other 70's solid state hifi gear. when you tape the Lp the RTR input circut has an effect and then when it's replayed the output circut has an effect. you take the Lp output from a current high quality phono stage and then run it in and out of those circuts. then if you trade tapes the recording process again goes in and out of those circuts. every generation of tape has multiples of the loss of resolution and the noise floor increases.

which is why a tape of an Lp on a 70's prosumer deck can not equal the Lp. it's just phyiscs.

now; if you make the first copy on a 1" master recorder like The Tape Project does, then copy it on a set of custom configured Ampex master recorders there will still be a difference you can hear, but it will be very slight. but this set-up will be very expensive and require some real experts to make sure everything is just right. why would The Tape Project go to so much trouble to make the best possible dubs if it was easy. it's just not that easy.

no; i don't hear any better than the next guy.

it's only with digital that you can make perfect copies; but only because the life has already been sucked from the music during the A to D process......so who cares then?

i think that if someone enjoys making tapes of Lps, and likes the sound, then i say enjoy the tapes. if someone enjoys making digital copies of Lps and likes the sound, then i say enjoy the digital. OTOH if someone says either of these approaches make perfect copies, then i say that is wrong. i'm not critical of either approach, just of a miss-leading statement regarding them. i like to hear music in all formats, as close to the native source of the recording as possible.

Mike,

Im not going to get any further into a contest of what I cannot hear, which is a difference between my sources and my recordings, or that of those that I frequently talk with, of the same opinion. But I will say, Im not running any crud machines from the 1970's. Im using 2 deskc from the latter 1990's, and 2 decks from the middle 1980's, and of them, all 4 decks have been completely brought up to better than factory spec, by an expert in this field, of repair and restoration. A guy who I referred many people, and all have had nothing but the most positive to say about his work. I switch between source and tape, I also have DBX type 1, which on occasion I use, and I cannot hear a difference, which is all that is important to me. And to all others that are impressed when I allow them to hear these tapes. I like to agree with you on the fact that we both love reel to reel tapes, and Id rather not argue. My ears are my guide, and they hear just what Im telling you. Ray