vintage turntables?

A few thoughts about vintage direct drive tables.

In the '70s many Japanese manufacturers developed quality, precision DD tables - Technics, Denon, Sony, Trio/Kenwood, even Sansui. While these became fairly popular, they were expensive to design and build. So, to broaden sales potential, many lightweight and less expensive DD models were introduced. They may have been affordable but their sonics, and ultimately the reputation of DD, suffered.

In addition, several smaller American and European companies (who did not have the resources to develop quality DD systems) introduced belt drive tables, noting how much quieter they were than the (inexpensive) DD and rim drive tables. As a result, belt drive tables quickly dominated the market and then proceeded to expand to all price points.

Recently (5 years ago?) a revived interest began for quality DD and even rim drive tables, this time with heavy plinths and other isolation measures that better addressed the torque and vibration issues inherent in these designs. As a result, there is now serious interest in older Garrard, Thorens, Lenco, Technics, Denon, etc. tables.

So while the majority of consumer (less expensive) DD tables may have been lacking in performance, it is not fair disregard every DD table. And as Les pointed out, the Technics 12XX series was not designed as a DJ table, but it was adopted later by club DJs because of it's torque and build quality. It was up to Kevin at KAB to bring out the sonic potential of these (consumer) DD tables.

So Chuckelator, it's not just the look, there is great sonic quality potential if you choose the right vintage model.

I agree with Mapman 'bout the Philips 312. I picked one up off ebay last Christmas for $80.00. Absolutely mint, sounds incredibly good. And it LOOKS like a tt should, IMO.

Gaslover - This thread seems to be about scoring bargains on vintage tables and I would say that $80 for a Phillips GA 312 certainly qualifies as a steal as long as the cosmetics and performance are still good. It compares more closely to Bang and Olufsen than to these heavyweight direct drive numbers we are talking about. By comparison it is lightweight, ringy and springy and won't approach their speed stability.

I'm not sure there is any established standard for what a turntable should look like.

I agree with Pryso completely about the way things came down in the turntable market. Reviewers played a pretty big part in boosting VPI, SOTA, Linn and Oracle in those days at the expense of superior Japanese tables.

And ironically enough, the Technics SP-10 was originally designed for DJ work and, because it was so good and so user friendly, was revised as the SP-10 MK II and sold to audiophiles. Later, the 12xx series are made for audiophiles and, because they are so good, were picked up by DJs. Full circle.

Philips 312 is definitely not the best sound, but very nice and very cool!

Macrojack, talk about coming full circle, my very first turntable in 1982 was a Technics SL-5 linear tracking turntable. At the time, I was only 13 years old reading Stereo Magazine. That turntable lasted me through 2 systems, the first full Technics system - tape deck (with dBx), receiver and speakers. I was then able to upgrade to a Yamaha integrated amp (huge step up) and a pair of JBL 4412 studio monitors. That saw me to college. Some where along the way, I moved out of vinyl and into CDs where I saw my hifi system dwindle away into nothingness through many years until I came across the Zanden dac.

You and Pryso are correct about the current state of turntables. I would like to add that when these large Japanese companies pulled out of the turntable market, the barrier to entry was lifted - the real competition left - and thus real competition dissolved.

Maybe that is changing now, as there are some new direct drive tables entering the market. I am sure there are some excellent belt driven turntables too. I'm sure the engineering that went into them are tremendous.

But what would happen if a Pioneer or a Technics decided to enter in the high end market again? Where do you think their price points would come in?