vintage turntables?

Gaslover - This thread seems to be about scoring bargains on vintage tables and I would say that $80 for a Phillips GA 312 certainly qualifies as a steal as long as the cosmetics and performance are still good. It compares more closely to Bang and Olufsen than to these heavyweight direct drive numbers we are talking about. By comparison it is lightweight, ringy and springy and won't approach their speed stability.

I'm not sure there is any established standard for what a turntable should look like.

I agree with Pryso completely about the way things came down in the turntable market. Reviewers played a pretty big part in boosting VPI, SOTA, Linn and Oracle in those days at the expense of superior Japanese tables.

And ironically enough, the Technics SP-10 was originally designed for DJ work and, because it was so good and so user friendly, was revised as the SP-10 MK II and sold to audiophiles. Later, the 12xx series are made for audiophiles and, because they are so good, were picked up by DJs. Full circle.

Philips 312 is definitely not the best sound, but very nice and very cool!

Macrojack, talk about coming full circle, my very first turntable in 1982 was a Technics SL-5 linear tracking turntable. At the time, I was only 13 years old reading Stereo Magazine. That turntable lasted me through 2 systems, the first full Technics system - tape deck (with dBx), receiver and speakers. I was then able to upgrade to a Yamaha integrated amp (huge step up) and a pair of JBL 4412 studio monitors. That saw me to college. Some where along the way, I moved out of vinyl and into CDs where I saw my hifi system dwindle away into nothingness through many years until I came across the Zanden dac.

You and Pryso are correct about the current state of turntables. I would like to add that when these large Japanese companies pulled out of the turntable market, the barrier to entry was lifted - the real competition left - and thus real competition dissolved.

Maybe that is changing now, as there are some new direct drive tables entering the market. I am sure there are some excellent belt driven turntables too. I'm sure the engineering that went into them are tremendous.

But what would happen if a Pioneer or a Technics decided to enter in the high end market again? Where do you think their price points would come in?

Chuckelator - 1st want to thank you for this thread, I have refound old TT's and have been sucked in after pulling out of the attic my older Thorns TD160 that I have had since collage 35yrs ago. After doing research, a great site for this is the analog dept. - strong following for Thorns, I rebuilt the TD160 with the birch plywood base - but I added aluminum banding to cover this detail, damping the inners and then most impt - installing an older SME3009 ll arm on the original SME arm board. Had to cut some of the steel sub base to fit this in, but the final looks and sound is great. Then rewired the SME arm with Cardas tonearm wire to cardas RCA jacks mounted on the back side( very impt). redid the power wiring to the standard male output so a new power cord can be used, footers to raise and level the table. The motor was in great condition - no noise. This TT has great focus, depth and soundstage. I was so impressed I have purchased two more TD160's ( to make one ) and another SME arm.

So things happen in three's - on ebay last month a AR ES1 TT came up - totally perfect, inc the plexglass cover - not even a ding. So for this project I found on AG a Black Widow tonearm ( always wanted one ) that I am fitting to the AR. I am getting motor noise from the hearst motor and will probably replace this with the new 22vac motor/power supply from the Soundofthewood.com Another great site for AR is Vinylenirvana. The fun part is the rebuilding and to show others how well these old TT's can sound.

There is a downside - prices. I wanted a TD124 but on ebay this can go over $1200 - 1500 before you spend a bunch to rebuild. Art Dudley( Stereophile ) has made a big deal this year in his purchase of a TD124 and his new love with this table. This is where the TD160 for $100-200 can be a best buy, lots were made. Older AR's are harder to find. The SME 3009 arms are also inflated. You have to pick and choose to find the right price.

No matter what you do, if you have the tools and skills, the tables can sound good and really look great - have fun.

Bruce

Some excellent links.
Thanks everybody!