DIY Record Cleaning Solution

Markd51, or anyone else on the thread - Does anyone know what VPI is using in its fluid now?

I just bought my second VPI 16.5...My first VPI, the original 1983 design, finally gave up the ghost. I didn't use it from about '90 - '07, then started using it again after re-habbing my vinyl rig. In the early days, I used the VPI fluid, and marked all my cleaned records for the month and year of cleaning. I cleaned only with the VPI fluid back then. Twenty-odd years later, those records still sound great (and mostly I don't intend to clean them again, unless really necessary).

Now, I've been cleaning with MoFi fluids, which seem great, but a bit of a pain, b/c I have to leave them on for awhile, and do a light scrub, usually, to get best results on the dirtier records. And, on one old Toscanini RCA on which I used the Super Deep Cleaner multiple times, I'd swear the sound has become more bright (in a negative way) after about the 3rd run at it. (Darn clean by now, though.) But, can't say for sure.

I think the 80's VPI fluid had a bit of alcohol in it. I'm not convinced that the small amount used hurt the records. I assumed the new VPI fluid would be the same--but based on Mark's comments, I don't know. Does anybody know? I'm curious, frankly, to try it (since I got a bottle with the machine), but not if it's going to cause some gunky build-up.

To the point, directly, of the original question: I know several serious vinyl collectors and users that make their own fluid, which is mainly some combination of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water, probably very much as described in other posts, above. I'm not recommending it, and don't intend to do it myself, but there are some old hands at this game that scoff at the notion that a little bit of alcohol, used once, is going to seriously damage the vinyl. And they've got the empirical evidence of 20 - 25 years of use to support their views. Granted, anecdotal evidence doesn't win in the courtroom. But it's not valueless. It's certainly enough to make me curious to try some VPI fluid, if it's got alcohol in it (instead of some mystery gunk) on my stack of "really hard to clean" records, particularly given that my own anecdotal evidence seems to support these collectors' views.

Otherwise, I'll stick with the MoFi, for the exceptionally well-stated reasons Mark mentioned in his last post: The experts put it together so that it's "just right". (Yes, maybe I had an over-use incident on my Toscanini record, and that supports the notion that, whatever we use, restraint is necessary, except where you have a record that's a real problem, as this one was.) One relatively quick application of the MoFi regular Super Wash does a really nice job for most purposes, without negative side effects, so far as I can tell.

Only hard particles can harm stylus or record. The rest of the contaminants only compromise the sound reproduction nothing more.
(Well , boogie-man can harm your records ,but there is no repellent for him.)
I do better job of cleaning dirty LPs by hand than any VPI machine. It is a matter of being too lazy or not.
2 parts water 1 part alcohol, few drops of dish washing soap without lubricants.
Clean brush and clean sponge.
Total cost $20 dollars.

Just a quick comment for Oilmanjoe - "water may leave sediment."

I was fortunate enough to find some forty year old vinyl - and the first thing I noticed was the beautiful condition it was in. I found evidence of "care" in the faint watermarks that were left on the record surface near the label. Nothing on the label itself - which indicated to me that me that the former owner was careful when cleaning his collection.

According to my father, (who was a local broadcaster for many years in and around the time these records were made) -ordinary tapwater and soft cotton cloth was the preferred cleaning method of the day.

I cleaned these records using a Loricraft PRC-3 with top quality modern day solution - and those watermarks remained absolutely unchanged. Actually quite a surprise, but it made believer out of me. Suffice to say that I share your thoughts on ordinary tapwater - and to a lesser degree, this may also apply to steam.

All I have to do to check my local water quality is remove sediment from my kettle every once in awhile with CLR. It's always a dirty mess - and we are known to have very high quailty water in the region that I live.

Calcium and Flouride are great for your teeth, and ordinary water makes a pretty good drink - but none of it should be used on a valuable collection.

In answer to the query as to what I use, see:

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?s=a77a534bf29780f554d2dd2c671eee4c&t=3826&highlight=Logan

I don't highlight this because (i) the stuff was available only in New Zealand, (ii) it is no longer marketed, and (iii) I bought up gallons when I became convinced of its efficacy.

It is a standard spray and wipe recipe containing about 20% ethanol*, buffering ammonia, a non-ionic detergent and an ethylene glycol mono-ether as wetting agent. No coloring or fragrance chemicals. I use microfiber cloths for application and for LP drying after thorough rinsing.

* Isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol) would work just as well. It does NOT harden vinyl as claimed above - there is absolutely no chemical reaction between PVC and/or PVA and isopropanol at room temperature. Rubbing alcohol is NOT isopropanol. It contains this alcohol as solvent, but also contains other chemicals which might not rest comfortably in an LP grove. Only pure isopropanol should be used to make up the aqueous solutions required for LP cleaning. Never use a pure alcohol of any sort for cleaning - all it does is evaporate and re-deposit all the dirt and gunk it originally dissolved.

Maclogan,
Probably nobody will follow up to your post, or has any interest in your link due to the "heated volatility" that these commercial vs DIY threads produce.

I read the Threads you pointed to in the other forum in its entirety.

Let's bypass the facts that you claim to be a Chemist, and have pretty much proclaimed yourself an authority of what works, what doesn't. And those that use RCM's, and commercial brand cleaners are deluding themselves, and the only thing they have actually succeeding in doing, is making the sellers of these products rich, and nothing more. Let's not for the moment even concentrate on commercial vs DIY cleaners.

As I see it, the original poster in this thread, Jimateo has already got you beat by a considerable margin, by the purchase of a RCM. Coming from a very good mechanical-engineering backgroud, I have absolutely no doubts that a vacuum process to remove whatever fluids you choose, or anyone else chooses to use, will be vastly superior to using towels for removal, no matter how clean, or expensive these products-towels are. He's most certainly got convenience working for him if nothing else.

You could as well, gain the same advantages, but it has to be an individual decision. My only regrets were not purchasing an RCM (VPI 16.5) sooner.

Like driving a car in winter with no heat, of course the car will get you from point A-B. But why suffer?
With that being said, what price, or no price would you place on such a convenience, better cleaning efficiency, better end results?

With my own record collection (700-800 LPs), (which I know is very meager compared to many other vinylphiles), I concluded that I would like to get these LPs all cleaned sometime within this century. If only for convenience alone, I surely didn't wish to slave over a kitchen sink, with such slow methods, to get through my collection.

Again, one doesn't have to fatten someone's bank accounts. I've seen a few very nice DIY RCM's in other forums. With some building skills, and a good working plan, it can be done.

I'm not even going to touch the debate of DIY vs commercial cleaners at this point, even though that was what this Thread was about.

I can only conclude that those who clean thier vinyl, use whatever they feel works best for them, whether due to cost restraints, or whatever other personal reasons. There's no set standard of vinyl playback, they're your records, it's your system, and we should all perhaps for the moment not ultimately forget what this hobby is about, the enjoyment of music. What I may use for my enjoyment, another may find no satisfaction.

Cheers, and happy holidays to all. Mark