matching tt to music


The other day I started a post about bad sounding classic rock lps. It suddenly occured to me, that I had enjoyed them some months ago with a different tt setup.

On my current VPI setup these lps sound lousy. In my previous setup, totally modded Thorens TD 160, Pete Riggle modded Rega RB250 with Incognito wiring, Sumiko Blue Point Special and/or Dynavector 20XL, Cayin Phono-One preamp these sounded relatively musical.

I listened almost exclusively to the very classic rock lps I now complain so much about. I was happy enough with the sound I didn't play digital once in perhaps a month.

I installed the Thorens back in the system yesterday, and voila, these recordings again sound like I recall from the previous listening, I enjoy listening to classic rock recordings again.

I conclude you need the right tool for the job. The VPI is simply too detailed for these albums, it illuminates all the warts (especially with the Valhalla tonearm wire). The Thorens is just veiled enough to hide most of those warts. The Thorens also has a fuller tonal balance, ie. sounds
more musical with these albums.

At this point, I'm planning a dual tt setup, the VPI for the quality recordings, the Thorens for the crappers. The only problem is, I will need a new cartridge for the Thorens/Rega setup. I will need to use a MM cartridge, which will allow both setups to be used together (VPI uses the MC input on Cayin, Thorens will use MM input). At this point I'm looking at purchasing either a Shure V15 III or VHR, AT 150MLX, Grado Gold or Silver, Pickering XVS, or Ortofon 2M Bronze. Any suggestions on which of these (or another) that will work well with this combination? I'm looking for a fuller tonal balance, want something on the warm side, but don't want bloated bass.
sns
Onhwy61,no, you don't understand me correctly. I am perfectly happy with the VPI when synergy is attained. It sounds wonderful with well recorded lps and lousy with lousy recordings, isn't that how it should be. The Thorens, which is a lower resolution tt, sounds better with poor sounding lps, masking the things I don't like with lower quality lps.

It seems irrational to me that a turntable would make lousy sounding recordings sound good, and at the same time make quality recordings sound their best. I thought it was accepted that high resolution was the goal of higher audio. Higher resolution equipment, inherently, will reveal the warts of inferior software or partnering equipment.

Some claim the best of the best audio will ameliorate this conumdrum to some extent by attaining high resolution and maximum musicality at the same time. Therefore, some would determine my setup to be excessively analytical and lacking musicality. Perhaps this is true, however, at what point do you call a turd a turd. Even for the best of the best, there has to be some point where the weak link in the chain will negatively affect the best in the chain.

For me, that weak link in the chain is the lousy sounding software. Perhaps a more musical, and high resolution tt will make certain recordings that sound bad on my setup sound better, but there has to be some point where the bad software overwhelms the highest quality tt.

And then we have perception, perhaps my idea of what sounds bad is different than yours, perhaps my threshold of what sounds bad is excessively low.

Either way, I don't like what I'm hearing with the VPI and lousy software. Perhaps I'm wrong in thinking a lower resolution tt setup will make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but I go back to what I heard when the Thorens was my only tt. Lousy recordings sounded better, better recordings were lacking in resolution.

The VPI makes my good recordings sound like I want them to sound, so it takes care of that deficiency of the Thorens. It also makes lower quality recordings sound worse than the Thorens, thus, I want the Thorens back in for the lower quality recordings.

Neither one of these tt's does everything for me. Again I ask, as in my previous thread. If there is a tt setup that makes quality recordings sound their best, and at the same time, makes low quality recordings sound good, I would like to know about such a beast. That would be a miracle to me, a wanna buy regardless of cost! I also go back to perceptions, someone may claim they have a tt setup that does it all, it may for them, perhaps not for me.

It may be that I have too high standards for lousy recordings, however, it seems I'm not alone. Outlets that trade exclusively in high quality recordings exist, people are spending their hard earned money, in some cases hundreds of dollars for a single album. I dont' think I'm alone.
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Tobias, it may have been the tt, the lp, the rest of the setup, your perception. Its hard to tell in a demo room at a show.

I've heard claims the VPI is not musical. If this is true, why are all these people buying VPI, are they fools, inexperienced, or tin ears. Many VPI owners claim they are very satisfied with their sound, perhaps they have attained synergy through careful choices in partering equipment. Or perhaps their perceptions are different than those who don't like VPI. Possibly they are fools, inexperienced and tin ears.

VPI owners should stand up and make their voices heard.
Some comparison and contrast may help us in determining just what the truth is.

As for me, I have no agenda, this is only my second tt setup since over twenty years ago. I'm not particularly bothered that lower quality recordings sound lousy on my VPI. I'm disappointed and bothered by the software, perhaps I'm wrong. For me, lousy software, just like lousy equipment, is replaceable and/or disposable.

I do know there are VPI owners claiming to be ok with their lower quality recordings. I've heard them over the past couple of days, they suppose its the rest of my setup and/or system. It seems they believe their VPI setups to be both highly musical and resolving. Are they wrong, or am I wrong, who knows?

As for my isssues, I think it is me, my perceptions simply don't match my expectations. This is a sociological issue, I'm in a state of anomie with my vinyl setup. Audio nervosa has me by the balls, at least in respect to lower quality lp recordings.
Tvad, almost in complete agreement with you! The only thing I disagree with, is the mid-fi gear thing. I had a nearly full Dynaco setup with Thorens TD160, later Linn Lp12, in the mid to late 70's, wonderful warm sound! Got away from audio, sold it all off. A number of years later, early 80's, got back into audio at a relatively low price point, bought into the solid state and direct drive tt silliness, NAD with cheapo Garrard, later Harman Kardon T60 tts, Dahlquist DQ10's. Thought I was doing good for a moment or two, usually when I was stoned or drunk, or stoned and drunk!
The Shure is not impressive to me. It is dull and lifeless, tracks well, but has a fragile stylus which disentegrates into powder...I have seen this twice. The Ortofon Black and the Audio Technica 150 have good things said about them. Jallen