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VPI HW-19 Upgrade question SAMA or SDS?

OK, the upgrade bug has bitten again, and I know that ther are a number of folks here that have lots of experience with their HW-19.

I have a VPI HW-19 Mk III that I recently upgraded to a Mk IV with a TNT platter with an inverted bearing. Also, it has a sorbathane puck suspension rather than springs, and I've replaced the rubber feet with cone type spikes. The table dead level sitting on top of a 1-1/2"-inch thick maple top shelf of a very heavy flexi-rack. I'm using an ET-2 arm connected to my shop compressor with four stages of precision air-regulation with the final stage adjustable just before at the entering the ET-2. I just air-up the compressor's 30 gallon tank, then kill the compressor so that it won't start back up, and I can listen for hours (wife think that I've lost my mind every time that I do this, but that's another story). Also, I'm currently listening to an AT33PTG that I have come to really like. The phono section is a Threshold SL-10 upgraded with Black Gates throughout.

The Mk IV upgrade made a real difference from the Mk III. As I quickly found out, the Mk IV presents a fuller soundstage and better base than the Mk III platter/bearing. I view that upgrade as well worth the money, especially buying it used here on A'gon.

Here is my dilemma with funds being limited to purchase only one or the other at this time, but not both - at least for now.

What do you think would be the best upgrade for this HW-19? A new SAMA for $400, or a used SDS for $600 to $800? Used SAMAs never seem to come up for sale, but you can always find a used SDS on Audiogon. I think that there are at least three available for sale here as I write this.

Also, if someone thinks neither mentioned upgrade would be cost effective, and that money would be better spent with an upgrade elsewhere, please say so. I'm trying to keep my mind and ears open - for better sound!

Thank you!
forrestc
tubegb's avatar
tubegb
190 posts
 
Forrestc,

My upgrade path is similar to yours. My HW-19 started life as a MKIII and was upgraded to a MKIV. I've kept the spring suspension. The next upgrade was the SDS and then finally the SAMA. The SAMA will further improve bass response, but to my ears, and in agreement with Narrod, the SDS made a more significant overall improvement. If with your current rig you've ever had the feeling that a piano recording was "slightly under water" that should (will) completely disappear with the speed stability of the SDS.

Tubegb
stickman451
553 posts
 
I recently tried the SDS on my Aries 3 and was impressed with the improvements; better bass, better detail, more dynamic and so on. Watch AudiogoN for a good used one.
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,475 posts
 
I too vote for the SDS
markd51
763 posts
 
I've run a similar gauntlet of upgrades with my own HW-19 as well, going from Jr to MK-IV Platter, using the SDS, Sutherland PhD Phono, Audiopoint Cone Feet.

Like you, I haven't gone the SAMA, but do have the SDS.
One thing you'll never achieve, not matter if you could somehow convert to Rim Drive, and that is correct speed.

Have you ever checked your speed with a Strobe? While AC line frequency is something that is usually very stable, there's no getting around errors with Pulley-Platter size, state of lubrication on Platter Bearings, condition of Belts, Stylus Drag, etc.

None of these things can be addressed even with the world's finest Line Conditioner.

As an example, you may in one instance need 60.10Hz to attain correct 33-1/3 speed. Relube your bearing, and you may now find 60.10hz is inadequate, and now need 60.20hz to keep a consistent 33-1/3.

The ramp down voltage feature of the SDS supposed to reduce motor noise-vibration. The calibration mode of the SDS also has an hour meter, and with this, you could keep track of hours of play with any given Cartridge.

Lastly, one can always do a "poor man's SAMA", setting Plinth on some type of support under the Plinth, ala "4 tomato cans" thus completly seperating-isolating the Plinth from HW-19 Base, and this will essentially produce the same results. Of course perhaps more finnicky to tweak-dial in, but it can be done.

I believe the SAMA to be bothing more, than the exact same 600rpm Hurst Motor, potted into a seperate Base. Hope this helps, Mark
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,475 posts
 
Unless you have absolute pitch, spot on correct speed is not very important... close is fine. When we tune up before a concert, we have a strobe that provides an "A" in the warm=up room. (When orchestras tune up in front of the audience, its only for tradition) Depending on the conductor, that A can be 440, 442, 430, etc.
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