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Our home system: How good it is?

My music sound philosophy/reference is the live music/event that unfortunately I can’t mimic on my system or in any other audio system that I heard. I always say that the very best we can achieve is to be nearer to the recording and even this target is a little “ elusive “ to get for say the least.

Through my audio life I heard a lot of different audio systems: I heard it on audio shows, on dealer rooms and on home people’s systems.

With out any doubt the best audio system performances that I already experienced were/are on home systems where I learn several subjects ( including the people music sound priorities ) and one-two of them are the in deep care in the SET UP of each link on the whole audio chain ( including room ). Some of high price systems that I heard it are not very good because its “ lesser “ care on the each link SET UP.

I want to share with all of you my latest experiences that I had 2-3 weeks ago when I visit some audio friends on USA.
I was exposed to 7 different home systems and I share with you my thoughts on only 4 of those home audio systems that I consider have nothing less but top/first rate performance and where I really enjoy the music.

First than all I want to say that all those audio friends were very gentle and with a very high sense on hospitality: thank you in deep to every one for that I really appreciate it in every way including your very value time that you take/give me.

The best subject during my visit to each one of those great people was to know/meet them: meet people with an in deep knowledge on music ( music lovers more than hardware lovers.), with in deep audio experiences, with in deep know how on their each priorities, with in deep care on whole room-system SET UP, with a great software, with an open mind to share and to accept different points of view, with in deep understanding that there are no perfect systems, with a “ humility “ attitude that it is a must to have to grow-up and with the enjoy “ feeling “ of music listening.

This was a very rare opportunity that I enjoy it and that I know I was so lucky about: Thank you again to all of you!!!!

In no order of preference here it is:

HOUSTON: Fred’s place with a dedicated audio room. Acapella big Triolon speakers, Einstein front end electronics, Rockport/Titan i analog rig, Nordost, JC-1s amps, etc.

When the first music note comes from this system you know that it is something special and after a few minutes you forgot about the hardware and start to enjoy fully the software ( either analog/digital ).
The system is so easy to transmit the music “ feelings/emotions “ and let that the sound/music flow directly to your mind.

Those Triorlon are really great and my hat off to Acapella people because they blend three different speaker drivers in an almost perfect mix. I don’t like ( but the immediacy ) horns ( I heard many of them ) and the Triorlon’s has two of them in the midrange frequency range and I have to say that these horns are the lower horn-signature that I ever heard, the mid bass/bass are moving coil drivers and the Plasma tweeter is ( probably ) the speaker star but with out saying “ I’m here “, like I say almost perfect driver blend.

BOISE: Steve’s place with a dedicated audio room. MBL 111 speakers, custom made Berning’s monoblock amplifiers, Technics SP10 MK3 with a Steve self design/build gorgeous plinth with Schroeder Reference tonearm and strain gauge cartridge/front end by Soundsmith and Lyra Olimpos.

This was my three time that I heard MBL speakers and my first time on a home system: what a difference!!!!, these system/speakers are so near the real music that, like in Fred’s system, the only think that you want is to hear music and more music: LP after LP and again!!!!

Those custom made amplifiers are very good match to the MBL’s and has the lower coloration of tube-signature amplifier I ever heard. I know that the MBL speakers are not easy/friendly with tube electronics and in this system everything is on target, of course that Steve’s hand on this count a lot for that.

I experienced here two different quality performance sound: the Soundsmith one ( that is good ) and a MC cartridge one. I have to say that the Soundsmith rig was only 20-30 hours from new and even Steve was “ playing “ with the set-up. Anyway IMHO that day the Lyra quality performance was way better and I enjoy it for many hours. With this MC cartridge things ( great things ) come out specially the non-sense audio system: disappear!, I had only the LP music performance: great performances.

DALLAS: Louis’s place with a dedicated audio room. Kharma Exquisite 1A speakers, CAT’s monobloks ( new ones: 30 hours on it. ), Lamm/Aesthetix front end electronics, Garrad 301/Triplanar/Xv-1and Technics SP-10MK3/SME/Air Tight both with a custom made wood plinths and the 301 with a custom made power supply.

First thing you note at Loui’s place is that huge room, the biggest I ever know ( maybe 2.3 times the Steve or Fred ones that are big. ) in a home stereo system.

Here I think that the stars are those 550 pound each speakers and its room good integration ( not an easy task ). Like the other systems this one is different but really good. This is my second time hearing Kharma speakers and I have to say that are very very good performers.

The whole sound is a refined/sophisticated one where you or anyone are asking for more, not more quality but more time to heard/hear and enjoy music. I was surprised by the 301 rig quality performance ( where I know very well the XV-1 quality. ): first rate, I can’t hear any coloration that I can/could say: “ that’s was the 301 “.

As good as I heard that system Louis told me that through his Lamm amplifiers ( SE 15-18 watts ) the quality of the system’s sound is a step higher!!, unfortunately I can’t hear it with these amplifiers. Anyway a pleasure to hear it on the Cats.

SAN DIEGO: Mark’s place with out a dedicated audio room ( the system belongs to the sitting room ). Revel speakers, Threshold amplifier, Hovland front end electronics and Raven/Triplanar/Ruby 2.

It seems the “ modest “ system on the group but a top quality performer where we know immediately the very hard work that Mark made to achieve that high quality performance. I know very well the Ruby 2 and in this system is something to hear.
Here there is no single “ star “ but a very good set up of audio items group that sounds a lot better that some very high price systems that I heard, money means nothing at all with out whole/overall knowledge.

As different as are all these audio system all them share common things: system whole synergy, when you heard it you know everything is there ( soundstage, good tonal balance, inner detail, transparent, fast response, dynamics, etc, etc, ), nothing is telling you “ I’m here “ ( very well balance ), sounds good with different kind of music and at different SPL levels, you can heard it for many hours and enjoy every minute, etc, etc.

Are these audio system “ perfect “ ?, certainly not: nothing is. Their owners ( all of them ) already know that they have “ land “ to improve and more important that this fact is that all them know where to improve.

Something to “ ask “ to these systems?, well as you know I’m for full range ( octave to octave ) audio systems and if I put really exigent then I can say that all these system “ miss “ the last bass octave/half octave. This bass octave is system/room dependent and speaker design specification dependent: non of those speakers were designed to achieve that low bass frequency range with the same high quality of the other frequency ranges.
Anyway I can say that I never feel the necessity of that bass octave during all those many hours of music pleasure hearing all those audio systems.

It is a nice thing to learn, through other home audio system listening experiences, if what we have at home is in the right “ road “ and this fact help all of us to grow up in the quest of home audio music sound reproduction heaven.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
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learsfool
1,215 posts
 
This is a great thread - thanks very much Raul. I have learned a great deal on this site, and will continue to seek more knowledge always - it is a never ending quest.

I would heartily agree that far too many "audiophiles" get way too caught up in their own systems and lose all sense of what live music actually sounds like. I am fortunate enough to be employed full time playing in a major symphony orchestra in a great concert hall, so I hear it almost every day. I would also agree that a very big component in all of this is one's "musical ear." The more you train your ears, the more you will enjoy music, however you are listening to it. It pains me when I go into an audio store, and the dealer quite obviously has no real ear for the music. Or when I read things posted by a dealer or engineer arguing for this or that component purely on the basis of its specs or type or whatever it may be EXCEPT how it sounds. Playing with equipment is fun, but it's all about the music in the end - music is what makes this hobby possible.
jimjoyce25
215 posts
 
Learsfool: Where do you sit in the orchestra? Do you think this makes a difference in your ear?

The reason I ask is this: I once knew a dealer who was a violinist. He was quite convinced that he knew what music should sound like, but his systems were all dramatically devoid of bass. I think it's because he was accustomed to hearing music surrounded by other violinists, and he lacked a sense of overall tonal balance.
learsfool
1,215 posts
 
The very short answer to your question would be that sitting in different spots on stage, or even in the hall, will of course give you a different perspective of the ensemble's balance, and we adjust to that accordingly. However, what you are speaking of is a fundamental sense of tonal balance in one's ear, which is not the same thing at all, and so the answer would be no.

As to your violinist dealer, who knows what sort of background he had as a violinist before he became a dealer. If he had played full time professionally, I seriously doubt he would have "lacked a sense of overall tonal balance." Professional musicians generally have very good ears, and are very sensitive to pitch, timbre, etc. However, there are certainly some professionals I know who don't have particularly good ears. Perhaps he preferred less bass in his systems since he would more naturally tend to focus on the higher frequencies first, being a violinist. It would not have anything to do with where he sat onstage, though (he just may want to hear the violins better and get rid of some of that pesky interfering bass - let's face it, violinists tend to be the worst of orchestral prima donnas). Seriously, when I was referring to knowing what music is supposed to sound like, I meant out in the hall, not on the stage. We must always be aware of what we actually sound like out in the hall, as it does not sound like that onstage. And our own instruments sound different to us up close than they do to you in the hall, and we have to be just as aware of the latter as the former.

Another possibility. One unfortunate side effect of the job is that we will all lose about 20% of our hearing over the course of our careers. This will happen mainly at the high frequencies, though, not the low. Perhaps, if he is older, he wanted to hear less bass so he could continue to hear the treble better.

Another obvious possibility, if you will forgive my mentioning it, is that his systems sound fine, and that your expectation of bass is different. Many people nowadays, including audiophiles, have become accustomed by rock concerts and movie theaters to the sound of gigantic, grossly amplified subwoofers producing bass sounds that are completely unnatural, at least in terms of acoustic music, and when this artificially boosted bass is not there, they miss it, no matter what the context. This sound is also unfortunately created far too often and totally unnecessarily in symphonic concert halls via amplification, usually in pops concerts, a practice we abhor. I seem to remember another thread recently where someone was bemoaning the fact that many kids today have no idea what real live acoustic music sounds like, not just because of the above reasons, but also in the context of digital compression. We could go on and on about that, which is getting way off your topic. I bring up the possibility mainly because you used the words "dramatically devoid." No offense is intended, I am certainly willing to give your ears the benefit of the doubt. :)
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
Raul,

How true. Having played in quite a few orchestras over many years in many halls, I have to say that your observation is spot on. It is next to impossible to hear the whole performing group from your own seat even if you are not playing. If you are playing it is impossible.That's why there are conductors. Yes, they actually keep the orchestra together and in balance or the opposite depending on their own talent. A number of years ago I was in Carnegie Hall attending a rehearsal with the Orpheus Chamber players. I was sitting about 10 rows from the stage in the orchestra seats. One violinist on the end of the section was sitting just a foot or so too far away from the other violinists. From the perpspective of the audience, she was almost playing solo since she did not blend with the rest of the section. Since Orpheus is "conductorless," one of the players always comes out to the audience during rehearsal to listen to the group. Sure enough, a cellist came out to listen to what was going on during rehearsal, stood in the aisle next to me. Before I could say something to him, he heard what I did and told the violinist to move her chair closer to the violin section. So Raul, you are correct. Orchestra players have impeccable ears for tonality and pitch, but if playing in their jobs is the only listening they get, it is very stilted. I mean, what could the perspective of a horn player be sitting in front of the trumpet section their whole lives?
learsfool
1,215 posts
 
Nice post, Elinor. I would only disagree with the very end of it. Our ability to hear is not stilted by our work, nor is our perspective limited to our chair at work. In fact, it is much easier to hear in a home listening environment, since there is nowhere near the sheer noise level. And the horn section, of which I happen to be a member by the way, often gets moved around the set-up quite a bit. Just within the last 15 years, I have sat on just about every area of the stage, though normally it is more towards the back of it. This affects how we adjust our playing to the overall balance of the orchestra, but it has no bearing whatsoever on our ability to hear outside of work, other than the inevitable hearing loss over the course of our careers I mentioned previously, which happens very slowly and would not affect an overall sense of pitch and timbre and balance in any case - it is mainly a loss in the ability to hear very high frequencies, or if the loss is particularly great, to hear at very low volumes.
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