Record is noisier after cleaning:


Hello, I have recently got back into Vinyl and am enjoying it so far except for one frustrating thing at the moment.
I have fielded this question on another forum as well (just so you know), but I thought it couldn't hurt to get some thoughts here as well.

I have the Pro-Ject Xpression III I bought about 12 days ago.
I listened to a new LP of Dave Brubeck's Time Out without cleaning it. It sounded wonderful, very quite, just a couple of pops on side 1.

Then a few days later I got the VPI 16.5. Yesterday I cleaned the very same record using the VPI RCF and brush that came with the machine. I followed the VPI instructions only. I played the record right away after the cleaning and surprisingly it was noisier then before the cleaning. There were many more pops and clicks. The surface noise during the quieter tracks was much higher.

I've been using a carbcn fibre brush before every play and also one of those dry stylus brushes as well.

Afterwards I tried some other ideas. I cleaned the record again but this time after the vacuuming I let it air dry for an hour. It seemed to be quieter then before but still not near the noise free it was before.

I played it again this morning to get a reference and then cleaned it a third time but this time I also rinsed it with distilled water twice and vacuumed it one rotation each time for the rinse. I played it and again it is noisy.

I don't see any obvious dirt or lint on the stylus. Anyway, I played a used clean copy of Oscar Peterson's we get request without cleaning it on my VPI and it sounded very nice. Very little surface noise and I don't think I heard any pops and clicks if I remember correctly. So I don't think my stylus is really badly dirty or anything.

So I am not sure what is happening, why the Time Out LP has become noisier after the cleaning. I am afraid of cleaning my other new records right away until I know what I am doing wrong.

Also, it appears the VPI RCF and brush isn't very popular. Is that correct? Should I get another RCF and brush?

Thanks,

-- Sanjay
schugh
Schugh,

It's great to see someone trying new things and asking good questions. Unfortunately, you missed some of the good advice given above, specifically by Albert Porter and Markd51.

Regarding the MoFi (formerly RRL) Deep Cleaner and Super Vinyl Wash, Albert, I and many others on this forum were satisfied users of those products for years, but no longer. Better performing products have become available in the past two years or so. The old RRL DC and SVW are gathering dust on our shelves.

MoFi DC did a reasonable cleaning job, but it doesn't come close to the effectiveness of enzyme based cleaners from AIVS, MoFi or Walker. Any of these will outperform DC by a significant margin. If I'd known you were going to buy DC I'd have sold you my 3 leftover bottles for half price (and I'd still feel guilty about ripping you off).

As for SVW, my recommendation is to avoid it. I have over 2,000 LP's cleaned with DC and rinsed with SVW. I'm recleaning every single one of them with AIVS Enzymatic to remove the residue SVW leaves behind. This residue is deceptive because you can't hear it directly; it actually makes the record surface quieter and the sound smoother. Unfortunately, it also smothers HF response and quashes dynamics. Once it's removed, the improvement in musical detail, life and "jump" is very noticeable. SVW won't damage your records, but it will prevent you hearing all the music that's on them.

My recommendation? Buy AIVS Enzymatic plus either Super Cleaner or Premium Archivist. Use them as directed, followed by two rinses with your super pure water (which may or may not be as pure as the water from AIVS, MoFi or Walker).

As a second, less costly option, consider AIVS One-Step, followed by two rinses.

Whatever fluids you settle on, use a separate brush for each solution. At a minimum you must use a separate pickup tube for the pure water rinses. Using a tube with grunged up felts for a "pure" water rinse defies logic (and will defeat the whole purpose).

Unfortunately, doing vinyl well is not cheap. You've obviously caught the bug and we feel for you. We've all been there and, sadly, most of us have no desire to escape!
only clean a record when it really needs it, and a manual cleaning works just fine. any type of record 'juice' should be a last resort.
In my opinion , poster albertporter suggested the correct diagnosis; the cleaning with a RCM only partially disolved the mold release compound(s) & other debris from the manufacturing process. I suggest these options : Do nothing , reclean with fluids suggested by other posters, use the Merrill GEM System w/ his cleaning solutions or steam clean . It is always possible the recording has noise embedded from the manufacturing and that is a bit of a curse for analog folks. Should you become a lifelong LP collector these options (and others) will be of some help. All the best.
To respond to Roydavis's post, and in regards to cleaners using Alcohol in thier formulations, I'm certainly no expert on the topic, so please don't ask me for hard scientific data to support any claims, pro, or con.

I reckon one must decide personally what they want in thier cleaners, and most good companies will disclose the basic ingredients.

From what I know, is that yes, Alcohol can be detrimental to vinyl, and I would gather that the important thing, is what type-grade, how much Alcohol is in a formulation, and how long it would be left on the surface?

While I know MFSL didn't use it in past formulations, one will fond that two of the very best vinyl cleaners, AIVS, and Walker do. In fact, it was mentioned here not long ago, about Walker's newest rave, the new Final Rinse they came out with, and as I understand it, this product contains small trace amounts of Alcohol.

I know just enough, to know that Alcohol supposedly doesn't do as much as one would assume it does, being a grease remover, but one characteristic, is that it acts as a Surfactant, making water "wetter", reducing surface tension.

I know there are other things that it does, supposedly helping lift-seperate the nasties (I think) from the vinlyand perhaps Jim P of AIVS might chime in to explain these scientific explanations, which I'm so poor at doing.

Evidently, the Lab Chemists-etc at AVIS, and Walker have determined that Alcohol is safe in thier formulations, provided that one properly follows thier directions. Mark
I also found that my records were noisier after using the X2000 fluid from Hannl. Switching to the L'Art du Son fluid from France was an improvement as was increasing the final rinse with distilled water.
When I switched to pure steam cleaning (as discovered by Crem1), the risk of fluid contaminants disappeared.