The 'tube-transistor' enigma by MC carts?


By accident I got to know an guy from Swizerland who has
worked for years as technician (R&D,testing,manuf.etc) by
Benz. I made some joke about 'Zelle',the expresion he used
to refer to carts,by asking if the carts are made by
prisoners? ('zelle' is 'the box' in the prison) He appreciated my joke and explaned to me in 2 sentences
something I never thought about. There are 2 kinds of
'bobins': iron and the other kind. The 'classical example'
of 'iron' is the Ortofon SPU. The advantage: stronger signal and some kind of 'pleasing warm sound.the disadvantage:(more)distortion.
The 'ruby-cross' bobin has (much?) less distortion but can
sound 'thin' depending on the rest of 'the chain'.
This is obviously the so-called 'Holistic' approach ;
aka Rauls 'it depends...'. Me? Because I can't cope with
more then 2 variables at the same time I am for 'simplicity' approch. The best 'definition' of this
approch is from O.Wilde:'I have the simplest tastes. I am
alwys satisfid with the best'. So I am still seaching.
Raul will you please bring (more) light to this issue?


Cheers
128x128nandric
Dear Nandric: Yes, fortunately there is progress.

SPU: many years ago I owned and change it for other cartridges that ( in that time ) like me more.
Last year I had two SPU experiences ( unfortunately not in my system ) and I can't find nothing that motivate to go for it. To be fair about maybe it is time to try a listen in my system, yes why not.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Dear Atmaspere. Very strange that the answer to my conjecture should come 'throug' me. The Swiss guy (R)was
acquaintance but became a friend so I 'abused' this to
ask more questions. Before stating the aruments I can say
in advance that we all (Raul includes)are right but for
different reasons.
My conjecture about 'tube-transistor' regarding the 'harmonic distortions' is correct. But the distortions
from 'iron-bobbin' are much less then from tube-amps (caused by outputtransformers). You are right regarding
'your variables' and Raul regarding the 'complexity' aswell
the personal preferences ( an constant ,it seems to me,in
hes arguments).
Your mentioning about our 'hearing' is an enigma to me:
those are phisical events and of course we hear 'the same'. But we must 'interpret' what we are hearing and
then we may have different preferences (see Raul about SPU
from Ortofon). So,for example, Van den Hul is 'tuning' hes
carts to the customers preferences. I.e. one can order by
hem what one like.
The Swiss is,as I mentioned befor, for 'it depends ...
approach. I was wrong to suppose some kind of 'objective
facts' behind our preferences.

Cheers
Dear Nandric, I sincerely hope and expect that the Jubilee et al has better than "0.2db" channel separation at any and all frequencies. Obviously, that was a typographical error on your part. But what were you trying to write?

Have you heard both the Windfield and the Jubilee? I am interested.
Dear Lewn, The Ortofon Windfeld has a channelbalance better
then '0.2 dB';the Jubilee better then '1dB'.
The 'typographical error' as you expressed it is even more
awful it is an 'category error'. I was quoting from HI-FI
news and was careless. What am I trying to write? To answer
this question I need a two 'channel separation'. One is
the 'story' about the 'bobbin-kinds' from the Swiss that
I translated from German. The other is the 'story' from
Johanssen,the designer of Windfeld,about the progres from
Jubilee to Windfeld.The bobbin modification from Jubile
made an pricise 'winding' of the coil for the Windfeld; as
the result (0.2dB) shows. So this 'channel' leeds to the
importance of the 'bobbin' and that was the subject matter.
So were we are now? There was an 'embarrassing question'
and then a difficult one. The third is fortunately the
easy one. Yes I am familiar with both. I own the Jubilee
and an friend the Windfeld. The Windfeld is a better cart
but is also nearly 3x more expensive (in Europe). I dont
belive that Windfeld is 'twice' as good. We in the Netherlans have then,I think,an better choice: Van den Hul
is 'next door' (Holland is a small contry) and one gets
'no worry' proposition: retiping,mods.,etc. Van den Hul is
very kind for hes customers.Compere this with sending your
$12.000 Koetsu to Japan,for example.

Regards
-
Raul indicates "bobbin" is synonymous with "armature", just different terms for the "thing" they wind the coil-wire around. Is "core" another synonym?
I ask because there is also the "air core" design, where the coil-wire is wound around — nothing. Thus there is no interaction between the different materials, hysteresis, or "magnetization" of an iron core.
As it was explained to me, the "air core" is wound around something of course, it must be. They use — Ice. The wire is wound around a sliver of ice of the right shape, which then melts away, leaving no core/bobbin/armature at all. Hence "air core". This must be done in a deep-freezer, of the walk-in kind.Fidelity Research used this method in some of their models, as it was explained to me by a FR aficionado I knew many years ago. Maybe he was wrong, maybe nuts — but my FR MC-201 advertises its air-core as a feature that offers lighter moving mass and lack of the interactions mentioned above.
Do any of you know more about this?
I’d like to think he wasn’t crazy. I bought several FR cartridges from him, because of their sound of course, not the ice-theory.