best value - record cleaning machine

dave

i do a record - both side - 4 step (Walker Fluids) in 10 minutes leasurely while I am listening to other vinyl in the same room

the vac barely gets in the way of the musical enjoyment

only problem with Walker - you mix up the enzymes for 10 records at a time - so plan on marathon cleaning sessions
good rainy day or evening stuff

"Value" is a relative term. If you spend $500 dollars for a suit from Goodwill, you have likely gotten poor value. Yet the same $500 spent on a new Armani suit is probably a good value.

Likewise, if you only have a few records, a VPI machine is a decent value. However if you have thousands of dollars (or more) invested in a vinyl collection, purchasing a high quality vacuum RCM like a Loricraft is not only a good value, but in my opinion as essential as your cartridge or a tonearm. If you want to get the best sound and preserve those precious LP's, in my experience, a high quality RCM is not a luxury but a necessity.

Cleaning is not the problem, the main difference is getting the fluid out of the grooves.
Best are Monks or Loricraft (a copy from Monks), but they are much slower, they do it "groove-by-groove"inside-out. But they are superior.
But they have their price, there is much more know how in it compared to a VPI 16.5/Hannl or similar

Jazdoc, Honestly, why is any of the VPI Machines only a decent value if you only just have a few records? Your statements I feel are misleading, and false in this regard.

Of course RCM's like the Loricraft are built better, and you pay considerably for it as well.

But the debate about which machine actually works better, without harm to the LP, I feel has been mucho overhyped, without any sound, and factual analysis to confirm this.

I do understand the principles of the Loricraft, understand that yes, picking up fluids takes much longer, as any of the VPI-Type machines with a Vacuum Wand Slot essentially remove fluids in just a literal few seconds, and are removed fully within two rotations.

I understand, that the Loricraft often does not entirely pick up fluids from the surface, and I wonder then how is this a benefit?

So, other than the noise factor of machines like the VPI, what else is its downside? Is it the belief that the VPI's Velvet Protective Strips re-contaminate a record's surface? Is it the contact of the Wand marring, and grinding dirt into the groove-surface? Have these opinions-assumptions actually been proven?

Or is it actually just a false pre-concieved thought without substantiated proof that it does?

I'd actually like to see someone do micro-analysis of both machines final results, using the same fluids, particularly a 3, or 4 step process like many use here with thier RCMs.

Testing be "ear" I feel can leave much to the imagination, just because one spends $3500+ on an RCM, are they perhaps hoodwinking themselves to believe that it "has' to do a better job because they shelled out all that money?

If I'm wrong about these thoughts, then I'm hoping somebody here puts me in my place, with some sound, technical answers. Mark

I want to say, to all, if my post sounded abrasive, trust me, I haven't intended such, and I think all you folks are a great bunch of people.

I'm certainly not implying that the VPI method is superior, or perhaps npt even inferior as well, but it is a different method of fluid removal, this I know.

I can understand the record cleaning philosophy of "do the least amount of harm", and that Loricraft's design principles hold high merit.

I do wonder though, just how "far down the ladder" the VPI method is by compariso,n by the use of good, proper cleaning techniques, high quality fluids-rinses, and application brushes?

I've suspected that there may indeed be very little to no difference, provided the cleaners are effectively doing thier jobs, and that proper rinses, and methods are used to insure no remaining residues, whether contaminants, or cleaners are left behind for the Stylus to see.

The only other possible detriment, that I previously mention in my last post, is what possible negative effects could the Velvet Protective Strips on Vacuum Wand cause?

If I've steered this thread from its original theme, please forgive me folks. But I do very much enjoy discussions such as this, which may provide better factual evidence, and beliefs, rather than saying something is better than another, yet without further explaining actually why? Mark