Mounting hole-to-stylus variation / tolerance


Hi all,
I know this particular point has been touched on, raised, in some of the threads dealing with tone-arm-alignment in particular.
I truly think it deservers a dedicated thread since it has a more or less profound influence on various arm designs and their alignment.
It also has a profound influence in how accurate and beneficial any after market alignment tool will work for you!

We have had this far, feed back from Jonathan Carr, i.e. the variations and tolerances with regard to his product (Lyra).
We also had some rather powerful insights by Frank ..., who designs and makes arms i.e. the variations of various products he took note of.

Jonathan quoted, that his current products have a +/- 0.3mm tolerance from the 'standard' IEC...? of 3/8" or 9.52mm.

The findings of some contributors are different, possibly due to simple variations much greater than 0.3mm (Lyra's tolerance) or possibly due to subsequent movement of the 'motor' relative to the body, caused by rough handling, re-tipping, etc.

It is of most importance to get more feedback on this, due to the dependence of a close match to 9.52mm, on arms such as ALL of SME, to name but one. These rely on this to be fairly accurately aligned. If not, some pretty unacceptable misalignment follows as a result, if the stock alignment method is used.

Lastly, HOW can a 'normal' end-user measure this distance with some degree of accuracy?
I have no problem using a vernier (calliper) and measure a +/- 0.05mm variation.
I can not see that this tool will be of use in this case. Optical measurement (like tool-shops use) will be best I should think --- but who, I ask, has this at hand?

Greetings,
Axel
axelwahl
Good evening Mr. Kurt aka Dertonarm,
Regardless of your disliking or lack of understanding of my products, I do not understand what gives you the right to post false or misleading information about my person.

For the record:
I studied graphic arts and industrial design at the Hochschule der Künste Berlin(from 1981)
I attended the AWI (American Watchmakers Institute, now called AWCI) throughout several extended visits to the US in the 80s, was further trained by both Berlin and Glashütte based watchmakers and was a member of the NAWCC for many years.
From 1988 until 2002 I worked freelance for (among others) the German Foreign Office, the Federal Press and Information Office, the Chancellary of the Berlin Senat and the Berlin Filmfestival.

Showing people the Reichstag was a rare occurrence, what all I HAD to do you can't even grasp.
And we are talking state visitors like Bill Clinton, Queen Elisabeth, Ehud Barak, Pulitzer prize winning journalists and holocaust survivors. NOT TOURISTS!!!

After that I registered a business of making equipment for replaying vinyl records. A genuine (more than)full time business ever since.

Your comparison to a Linn product and its marketing is astounding. I never placed a single ad in an audio magazine. I never told my dealers to "teach a gospel", a "philosophy", to create a "cult" or to tell their customers that all other tonearms are pieces of junk.
My total turnout is SOOO MUCH smaller than what Linn made and still makes in a year(probably closer to a month) that I wonder what agenda you have other than enjoying to be provocative(which, per se, doesn't have to be a bad thing).

You have insisted on the absolute value of physics and math countless times. Whenever I give figures based upon physics and math, you do nothing to disprove it or to present an alternate calculation that could be subject to scrutiny.

I have been building tonearms since 1976(!). I've continued to do so when nearly everyone loudly proclaimed "LP is dead!" , so the current economic situation doesn't frighten me at all(in terms of my own order book).

On a last note. If you previously were less than impressed with the results achieved with a setup incorporating one of my arms, please feel free to call me and ask for some tips on how to maximize the performance. I will be happy to do so and you may find that I am in fact an "enthusiastic audio amateur"(as in the original sense of the word amateur and as any audio manufacturer should be), but that I also deserve to be treated with respect, as I try to treat everyone else with respect too. Dignity may not mean much to some, but many a forum would benefit from the recognition of it's value.

To all: My apologies for not adding to the actual topic, but some statements posted above by Mr. Kurt deserved correction.

With regards,

Frank Schröder
I happen to speak to Mr.Schröder few days ago about ordering his arm, the discussion expanded to other subjects in audio.... What Frank did not mentioned in his "resume" that he is avid audio enthusiast, who tried so many things you could not possibly imagine.... I think what AT LEAST deserves a respect is his professional knowledge in audio.
HALLO!!!!!!!
Welcome to the world of sharing :-)

It just shows that it helps to keep things level.
I for one did not know that Frank was alias Berlinta (Berlin TA --- ah, so!).
Well at least I only had nice things to say about you Frank. And having met you, if rather shortly, at the last RMAF made my impression of a most approachable and VERY dedicated Audio professional (it was just great to what you tweaking your arm set-ups :-)
Now you shared some more, thanks to Herr Kurt's little bantering (not to call it indiscretion). So every cloud has a silver-lining, one man loss the other man gain, hm.

I was actually trying to find out, what it was that caused this less then enthusiastic assessment of the Schroeder arm(s). Alas now I guess we will have some difficulty with this, I guess. Or what say you Daniel?

It also shows that sometimes this 'aliasing can be cause of embarrassing moments...
I myself put my foot in, when questioning Dave Slagle (THE trannie man around here) about his postings being 'oddly reminiscent' of some other originator(s). As it turned out most of it was of course his own -- under his non alias!
Well, Daniel, Frank, embarrassing as thing can be at times I still have to THANK YOU both very much for your valuable contributions, even if they do not converge...
This puts some spice and flavour in this 'blogging soup' :-)

Thank you for sharing,
Axel
If one has the means to adjust P2S infinitely, and has an arc-style protractor custom made for the arm in use, then the concept this thread was started on is moot, as well as any worries about effective length.
Hi Dan_ed,

thank you for your thoughtful input.
Though, the key word here might just be --- IF --- or?
:-)
Axel
PS: IF that distance is way out, as some carts seem to be, the stock adjusting templates e.g. SME can become pretty useless. You suggest to buy a new custom template for each new cart ---- IF that distance we talk about is truly KNOWN! A lot of IFS...